Thursday, August 04, 2005

Is the Watchtower Guilty of Prostitution and Lying?--A Surprising in Depth Report of the WT/UN Matter


In 1992 Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs) became associated as a non-governmental organization (NGO) with the United Nations (UN) in association with the Department of Public Information (DPI). Ten years later they withdrew their membership and sent out letters explaining exactly what happened. (See letter below)




They have received much criticism from the media as well as former or disgruntled JWs. Some JWs have read about the situation and have become confused over the matter. Since JWs often call their religion, ‘the Truth’ many who criticize them have began to call the way they view the WT/UN association as ‘the truth about the Truth.’ One JW critical of the WTS over the issue in his online essay had this to say: “Sadly, in view of this "explanation," it seems that not only is the Watchtower guilty of spiritual prostitution, but they have now exposed themselves to public shame as outright liars!”.




What is the truth about the matter? Has the WTBTS been led into apostasy, prostitution with the wild beast (as the UN is identified by JWs), and even lying to cover over the 10-year association? Is the WT’s official letter explaining exactly what transpired full of lies and cover-ups? Just what is the truth about ‘the truth about the Truth?’ Rather than take at face value what apostates, opposers, and accusers are saying let us examine it honestly, with an open mind, without prejudice, setting aside all hearsay.


The Difference in NGOs Associated with DPI & ECOSOC

It is claimed that NGOs associated with the DPI must support the UN. The scenario goes like this:
The importance of working with and through NGOs as an integral part of United Nations information activities was recognized when the Department of Public Information was first established in 1946. The General Assembly, in its resolution 13 (I), instructed DPI and its branch offices to: "...actively assist and encourage national information services, educational institutions and other governmental and non-governmental organizations of all kinds interested in spreading information about the United Nations. For this and other purposes, it should operate a fully equipped reference service, brief or supply lecturers, and make available its publications, documentary films, film strips, posters and other exhibits for use by these agencies and organizations.”
In 1968, the Economic and Social Council, by Resolution 1297 (XLIV) of 27 May, called on DPI to associate NGOs, bearing in mind the letter and spirit of its Resolution 1296 (XLIV) of 23 May 1968, which stated that an NGO "...shall undertake to support the work of the United Nations and to promote knowledge of its principles and activities, in accordance with its own aims and purposes and the nature and scope of its competence and activities".

Lets examine the claim in detail. First off, it should be mentioned that there are different kinds of NGOs. Some have consultative status and some have associative status. Notice this link from Insight Magazine:


Here is a partial quote from this magazine explaining NGOs and the two different types:
"For an NGO to be recognized by the United Nations, however, there are requirements, and even two statuses for which an NGO might apply.
The DPI status is under the authority of the U.N. Department of Public Information (UNDPI), which controls U.N. archives and research facilities....

The other status for which the NGOs may apply is ECOSOC (Economic and Social Council) status. The U.N. Website says that to obtain ECOSOC standing an NGO must prove that its work is directly relevant to U.N. goals. With ECOSOC standing an NGO may enter into a formal consultative relationship with access to officials of U.N. member states and must provide useful or special information to the U.N. Economic and Social Council…”

There are NGOs that register with the DPI and NGOs that register with the ECOSOC. The WT had registered with DPI (Department of Public Information). It is just what its title says it is: a department that supplies information. The other status for NGOs is a consultative status with the ECOSOC. There apparently is a difference. Lets examine the original articles and resolutions of the UN to confirm this.


Here is the UN original Article about the relationship of NGOs and the ECOSOC:

“Article 71

The Economic and Social Council may make suitable arrangements for consultation with non-governmental organizations which are concerned with matters within its competence. Such arrangements may be made with international organizations and, where appropriate, with national organizations after consultation with the Member of the United Nations concerned.”
Here is the resolution in part later adopted by the ECOSOC concerning NGOs:
“ECOSOC Resolution 1296 (XLIV)Arrangements for Consultation with Non-Governmental Organizations

23 May 1968
The Economic and Social Council,
Having regard to Article 71 of the Charter of the United Nations, Recognizing that arrangements for consultation with non-governmental organizations provide an important means of furthering the purposes and principles of the United Nations. Considering that consultations between the Council and its subsidiary organs and the non-governmental organizations should be developed to the fullest practicable extent, Approves the following arrangements, which supersede those set out in its resolution 288 B (X) of 27 February 1950:”

The resolution goes on to state: an NGO “...shall undertake to support the work of the UN."


It would seem that this resolution in the strictest sense applies to NGOs with consultative status with the ECOSOC in which the WTS was not one. This is therefore not the resolution that would apply to the WTS since it was a NGO associated with the DPI and not the ECOSOC.


The Spirit of Council Resolution 1296

However many try to use resolution 1297 to show that the WTS was indeed under the above resolution of 1296. Here is that resolution made by the ECOSOC in which the DPI was given formal power to associate NGOs.

“1297 (XLIV). Non-governmental organizations

The Economic and Social Council,
Recalling its resolution 1225 (XLII) of 6 June 1967, which requested the Secretary-General to report on the procedures of associating national and international non-governmental organizations with the Office of Public Information, and the possibilities of increasing the number of national non-governmental organizations from all States Members of the United Nations associated with the Office of Public Information, in order to increase their informational activities concerning economic and social affairs,
Recalling further its resolution 1296 (XLIV) of 23 May 1968, and particularly paragraphs 9 and 17 thereof, Recognizing the contribution of national and international non-governmental organizations to the dissemination of information about the United Nations,
1. Notes the report of the Secretary-General
2. Calls upon the Secretary-General to ensure that the Office of Public Information, while reviewing the status of present organizations or considering new applications, excludes all those organizations whose aims or practices tend or contribute to the propagation of nazi ideology and racial and/or religious discrimination;
3. Recommends that the Secretary-General should accord immediate and sympathetic considerations of the inadequately represented regions of the world, particularly in Africa, with respect to association with the Office of Public Information in order to accomplish a more equitable representation of national non-governmental organizations from Member States;
4. Recommends that the Secretary-General should encourage the increase of the number of national and international non-governmental organizations from all States Members of the United Nations associated with the Office of Public Information, particularly those representing racial groups because of the diversity of the experience they may have both in the field of human rights and in that of economic and social affairs; in this connexion, special efforts should be made to encourage the association with the Office of Public Information of organizations representing people of African descent;
5. Requests the Secretary-General to hold the next regional conference of non-governmental organizations in Africa, in accordance with paragraph 41 of his report
6. Recommends that the Secretary-General bear in mind the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296 (XLIV) governing consultative status, in associating international and national non-governmental organizations with the Office of Public Information;
7. Requests the Secretary-General to include in his annual reports on the work of the Organization information on the implementation of the provisions of the present resolution 1524th plenary meeting 27 May 1968 Official Records of the Economic and Social Council, Forty-fourth session, Annexes, agenda item 18, document”

You will note that the ECOSOC in number 6 is recommending that the Secretary-General (head of the DPI) “bear in mind the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296.” So often this is quoted to show the obligation of the NGO but this is a recommendation not to the NGOs but to the DPI for signing NGOs. The DPI is the one with the responsibility for doing this. Did they follow the recommendation? Following is the four page application that the WTS would have filled out in 1991.
















And here is a quote provided by Mr. Hoeffel of the DPI from the letter sent to NGOs in the 1990s:

“The principal purpose of association of non-governmental organizations with the United Nations Department of Public Information is the redissemination of information in order to increase public understanding of the principles, activities and achievements of the United Nations and its Agencies. Consequently, it is important that you should keep us informed about your organization's information programme as it relates to the United Nations, including sending us issues of your relevant publications...”
You will note that in both the application and the letter it is not mentioned that the NGO agrees to support the UN in the spirit of resolution 1296. From all appearances, whether intentionally or unintentionally, the DPI apparently did not take to heart the recommendation of the ECOSOC in associating NGOs in the spirit of resolution 1296 which says “...shall undertake to support the work of the UN." You would think that somewhere on the application it might say something like this: ‘We hereby agree to support the UN and its charter.’ And then a signature would be required showing that the NGO agreed to do this. However, not only did the application not have any such wording, a signature was not even required on the application. Does this not demonstrate that the original application was perceived as being somewhat insignificant?

So the answer to the question becomes clear. Did the DPI follow the recommendation of the ECOSOC in associating NGOs in the “spirit of Council resolution 1296”? Not according to the application or letter that was sent out to NGOs. It was simply mentioned to disseminate information. That is exactly what the Office of Information was formed to do. Something the WTBTS is more than willing to do since it can serve as a witness by disseminating information about how the UN will not accomplish the things that God’s Kingdom will finally accomplish.



Was the Application Renewed Every Year for Ten Years?

That is what many accusers are claiming. They claim that the WTS had to renew their application every year and thus they would have known their obligation to support the Charter of the UN. Often times they give the link for the 2005 Accreditation form. Here is the link for this form:

However it must be pointed out that the WTS resigned prior to this review process. Please note the words under number 4 in the document:

“In 2002 we instituted the review process for NGOs associated with DPI.”

The fact is that this review process was not in place prior to 2002. This is also confirmed by a press release by the UN in December 2001. Here is the link for it:

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/archives/L/2001/B/un011076.html
in which this quote appears:

"During the year the DPI has instituted a review process for the first time, in order to better measure the effectiveness of its liaison activities with associated NGOs.”

This verifies further that the DPI did not have a review process in place prior to this. The form the WTS was required to submit was merely a form showing who the representatives would be for the upcoming year so that they could obtain their pass. It was not a review form or renewal application to see if the NGO was measuring up and if they could continue to be an associative NGO. Here is a link to that form:


You will note again in this form there is no mention of agreeing to support the UN or its Charter. Instead it clearly states on the back page of that form and I quote:

“This form should be used to confirm your currently accredited representative and/or to authorize newly appointed representatives.”
The only conclusion that can be reached is that the WTS did not have to go through a review process every year for ten years to maintain their NGO status.


The UN Brochure Sent to NGOs

Here is a link to the latest UN brochure on NGOs posted on their website:


Often times those trying to discredit the WTS about this subject will quote information from this current version of the brochure from the UN showing the criteria of a NGO. In this way they try to demonstrate that the WTS had to know the requirement of a NGO was to support the UN. But it must be pointed out that this was certainly not the brochure in 1992 when the WT became an associated NGO. The brochure had no doubt been through changes before reaching the wording found in the current format. How do we know this?
Here are the links for the 1994 brochure:

The 1994 UN brochure gives evidence to the fact that there was beginning to be a change in the official requirements for participation as a NGO. On page six we find this statement: "A new relationship between the UN and NGOs is now being created. We have seen this new relationship begin to mature. NGOs are taking on important new responsibilities."
In comparing the 1994 brochure with the current brochure we find a major change. The current brochure has this quote: “What are the Criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI? The NGO must support and respect the principles of the Charter of the UN and have a clear mission statement that is consistent with those principles;” Whereas the 1994 brochure instead reads like this: “Who is eligible for association with the DPI? Non-profit organizations which: share the ideals of the UN charter;” The ideals of the UN charter are “to maintain international peace and security; to suppress acts of aggression that threaten world peace; to encourage friendly relations among nations; to protect the fundamental freedoms of all peoples without discrimination based on race, sex, language, or religion; and to achieve international cooperation in solving economic, social, and cultural problems." Certainly those are noble and commendable ideals that we all share in common.

The 53rd Session of the General Assembly in 1998 verified a change in the NGO/UN relationship.
http://www.hri.ca/uninfo/ngoaccess/sorensen/index.shtml http://www.hri.ca/uninfo/ngoaccess/sorensen/soren6.shtml
With the quote: “80. In the aftermath of the global conferences and with the emergence of a new international environment characterized by unrestricted flows of information, the United Nations has entered a new era in its relations with NGOs and other civil society actors. The Economic and Social Council recognized this changed relationship when it adopted resolution 1996/31. Many agencies, funds and programmes of the United Nations system have followed suit. The Secretariat, for its part, has tried to adapt to this new situation in creative and innovative ways and will pursue its efforts in this field. The United Nations is committed to seek the participation and contribution of NGOs in its work. New approaches, attitudes, methods and responses are required throughout the United Nations system if we are to meet this challenge effectively”

The above clearly confirms that after the WT obtained NGO status there was a clear change in the UN/NGO relationship. Furthermore, there was a study report done in 1999 by the Secretary-General concerning the UN/NGO brochure confirming the need for a brochure to be sent to all NGOs. Here is the link for it:


And a quote from it under section 24, “It was also proposed that each NGO should receive an orientation/welcome booklet and/or session upon obtaining formal status with the UN. The information should include specifics about the NGO liaison offices in the UN system, including names, contacts, locations. The booklet should reinforce mutual rights and responsibilities, as well as practical guidelines for the functioning of NGOs within physical structures and protocols of the UN, including how to follow debates and so forth.”

In conclusion the WT may well have not received a brochure when obtaining NGO status in 1992 as has been claimed by many. And for a certainty they did not receive the current brochure that is now being circulated and used to discredit the WT and their claims.





The Letters From the WTS

Here in its entirety is the letter written to the Guardian by the WTS after the article was written about the WT/UN association.

“October 22, 2001
Letters Editor
The Guardian
Dear Sir,
Stephen Bates' articles in The Guardian of October 8 and 15 substantially misrepresents the background to Jehovah’s Witnesses registration with the United Nations and contains a number of factual errors.
In 1991 one of our legal corporations registered with the United Nations as a NGO (non-governmental organization) for the sole purpose of getting access to the extensive library of the United Nations. This enabled a writer who received an identification card, to enter their library for research purposes and to obtain information that has been used in writing articles in our journals about the United Nations. There was nothing secret about it.At the time of the initial application no signature was required on the form.
Years later, unbe-known to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the United Nations published “Criteria for Association,” stipulating that affiliated NGO’s are required to support the goals of the United Nations.After learning of the situation, our membership as NGO was withdrawn and the ID card of the writer was returned.
Sincerely,
Paul Gillies
Press Officer for Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain”

And the letter to the branches of the WTS:

“Dear Brothers

Because of published allegations by opposers that we have secret links with the United Nations, a number of branches have inquired about the matter and we have replied. This circular letter replaces any replies we have given earlier and is sent to all branches. To anyone inquiring within your branch territory you might respond according to what is stated below:
Our purpose for registering with the Department of Public Information as a nongovernmental organization (NGO) in 1991 was to have access to research material available on health, ecological, and social problems at the United Nations library facilities. We had been using the library for many-years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access. Registration papers filed with the United Nations that we have on file contain no statements that conflict with our Christian beliefs. Moreover, NGOs are informed by the United Nations that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.
"Still, the Criteria for Association of NGOs-at least in their latest version-contain language that we cannot subscribe to. When we realized this, we immediately withdrew our registration. We are grateful that this matter was brought to our attention.
We trust that the above is, helpful in counteracting the attempts of opposers to discredit us.”


And here is a letter from the WTS addressing the questions of an individual concerned about the matter:

"Dear Mr. __________:

We are well aware of the controversy surrounding our former registration with the United Nations as an NGO with the UN's Department of Public Information (DPI)

As you have concluded, the intent of all statements issued on this matter was that they reflect truthfully and without any contradiction our motive and purpose in registering with the United Nations as an NGO. We appreciate your efforts to set the record straight in this regard.

As we have previously stated, our purpose in registering with the DPI was to gain access to the excellent research materials available in their library facilities. As you may know, we are the publishers of the Watchtower and Awake! magazines, which contain well-researched information on a wide variety of subjects. Over the years, our staff has found the information available at the UN libraries to be extremely helpful, in addition to what is available otherwise at public and private libraries around the world.

In any case, we had been using the library facilities at the UN for many years prior to 1991. In that year, our researcher was advised by UN personnel that it would be necessary to register as and NGO to have continued access to the various libraries we were using. Registration papers filed with the United Nations at that time contained no statements that conflicted with our Christian beliefs. However, when it was recently brought to our attention what was expected of an NGO registered with DPI, we withdrew our registration so as to remove any implication that our being recognized by the United Nations as an NGO goes beyond our original purpose or that Jehovah's Witnesses are involved in activities that are inconsistent with our own teachings.

Although critics may claim that access to the libraries could have been obtained without the need to register as an NGO, that is not what our research personnel were told at the time. They found it necessary to present an authorized pass to gain access to those specific areas, which were off limits to the public.

We trust the above clarifying comments will be helpful. We send our best wishes.

Sincerley,

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"




Is the WTS Guilty of Lying?


Are these letters full of lies and cover-ups to hide the ‘secret affair’ of the WTS and the UN? Lets examine them in detail.

“In 1991 one of our legal corporations registered with the United Nations as a NGO (non-governmental organization) for the sole purpose of getting access to the extensive library of the United Nations. This enabled a writer who received an identification card, to enter their library for research purposes and to obtain information that has been used in writing articles in our journals about the United Nations. There was nothing secret about it.”

“Our purpose for registering with the Department of Public Information as a nongovernmental organization (NGO) in 1991 was to have access to research material available on health, ecological, and social problems at the United Nations library facilities.”
"Although critics may claim that access to the libraries could have been obtained without the need to register as an NGO, that is not what our research personnel were told at the time. They found it necessary to present an authorized pass to gain access to those specific areas, which were off limits to the public."


It is here acknowledged that critics claim these statements are untrue. That anyone could have access to the library materials. They quote statements that the Dag Hammarskjold library and depository libraries were accessible to everyone. But please note even in the 1994 brochure that “For NGOs associated with DPI, the United Nations provides: ... use of the Dag Hammarskjold Library.” This at least demonstrates that sometime before 1994 NGO status was apparently necessary to access that library. But even if you disregard that, if you look closely you will see that the WTS did not say they registered as a NGO just to get a library card for the "main library." They also wanted to gain access to research material at the "extensive library of the United Nations" and at the UN “library facilities.” The extensive library facilities include more than just the Dag Hammarskjold library. It includes audio, film, and photo libraries, access to selected meetings, briefings, seminars, conferences, film screenings, commemorations, concerts, language courses, and the NGO Resource Center that offers current UN documents. Were all these resources accessible without a NGO pass? No they were not.

“We had been using the library for many-years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access.”

"In any case, we had been using the library facilities at the UN for many years prior to 1991. In that year, our researcher was advised by UN personnel that it would be necessary to register as and NGO to have continued access to the various libraries we were using."

The WTS here explains how their representative was told that he could not have access to a certain facility unless he had a NGO pass. Maybe it was an employee who was mistaken, as is sometimes the case with government employees or any employees for that matter. I'm sure most of us have had that same type of experience. If we are honest and have dealt with the government we know that different responses are sometimes given depending on whom you talk to. I, myself, have received different responses from IRS agents on the same question. This is not unheard of and is very plausible. On the other hand perhaps he was trying to use a facility that contained books or documents that was only for those with NGO status. At any rate, he was told he needed a NGO pass and therefore an application was requested.

The Global Policy Forum report from June 1999 confirms some of the confusion of the NGO/DPI and NGO/ECOSOC employees:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/docs99/gpfrep2.htm#9
Here are a few quotes. "The DPI office gets good marks for timely processing of pass requests and for overall courtesy and helpfulness. But its management of documents in the NGO Resource Center tends to be chaotic. Serious problems exist in both offices.”
"Many NGOs complain that some of the notoriously bureaucratic and unresponsive behavior of the ECOSOC office in the past still persists. The office employs cumbersome and time-consuming procedures for issuing passes, it too often it loses accreditation letters, and its staff can be discourteous.”
"NGOs also find the application procedures for new accreditation in both offices tend to be bureaucratic and paper-bound. Staff have lost or mislaid accreditation folders and have been inflexible in applying rules for evaluation. The NGO world is changing very fast, in terms of activities and needs, and UN offices that relate to NGOs must be change-oriented and flexible. The offices should consider a streamlined, web-based application system.”

While this confusion is noted by a 1999 report. Imagine the confusion that must have persisted prior to this when the NGO/UN relationship was still in a changing mode. Indeed it is very reasonable to believe that the WTS representative was told that he could not get into a certain facility without a NGO pass even if the employee was incorrect. Certainly if they can lose papers and forms it should not be surprising or unreasonable that a person could get wrong information from one of the employees there.


“At the time of the initial application no signature was required on the form.”

While it is hard to believe that an organization like the DPI would allow applications to be processed without signatures, it is nonetheless factual. We have already examined the application earlier and it clearly does not require a signature. Here is that link again:

http://www.randytv.com/secret/1991ngoapplication.htm

“Registration papers filed with the United Nations that we have on file contain no statements that conflict with our Christian beliefs.”

In examining the application and the subsequent forms to fill out to confirm representatives for the future, we find this to be a factual statement. Nowhere on either form do we find statements that the NGO is agreeing to support the UN or the UN Charter. Here are the links again for those forms.

http://www.randytv.com/secret/1991ngoapplication.htm
“Moreover, NGOs are informed by the United Nations that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."

A truthful quote indeed. No doubt this has been said many times by the UN, DPI, and its representatives when discussing the UN/NGO/DPI relationship.

“Years later, unbe-known to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the United Nations published “Criteria for Association,” stipulating that affiliated NGO’s are required to support the goals of the United Nations.”

This is without a doubt true. We have showed previously above how the current brochure is revised and is different from the 1994 brochure and how the ‘Criteria for Association’ clearly took on a different meaning and thus the revision. We have also shown how the 2005 Accreditation Form had drastically changed and alluded to the new review process enacted for the first time in 2002 whereas the earlier forms merely were to acknowledge who the representatives would be in the future so that they could obtain the NGO pass. Therefore it is a fact that both the brochure stating the ‘Criteria for Association’ and the Accreditation Form changed. The paper trail shows that it is true that the WTS had no forms in their files stating that they agreed to support the UN or its charter.

“Still, the Criteria for Association of NGOs-at least in their latest version-contain language that we cannot subscribe to.”

The latest version would be the current version that opposers continually quote showing the criteria includes supporting the UN and its Charter. Here again is the link:
http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/brochure.htm

“After learning of the situation, our membership as NGO was withdrawn and the ID card of the writer was returned.”

Again true. The WTS applied for NGO status to obtain a pass to the many facilities of the UN. After they had received this card or pass, the requirements for holding this card changed, therefore it was returned. Everything was done properly, despite what opposers say regarding the matter.

“We are grateful that this matter was brought to our attention.”

A kind word of thanks to those bringing their attention to the latest version of the brochure and Accreditation Form that required the extensive review process and had statements that could not be subscribed to.

In conclusion it is very clear from the evidence presented above that the letters were in accord with these facts and not full of deceitful lies and cover-up:


1. The original application on file did not require a signature, which seems to indicate, or at least gives the perception that the application for NGO status was merely a formality.
2. The registration papers filed with the UN contained no statements that conflict with our Christian beliefs
3. NGO status was necessary to get access to some facilities and documents and publications.
4. NGOs are informed that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the UN system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."
5. There was a changed relationship between the UN and NGOs and the applications, forms, and brochures of the UN also changed to reflect that fact.
6. When they realized that the revised document had language that said NGOs would support the UN etc. they immediately withdrew membership.
7. They were grateful to those bringing it to their attention.

There are no lies in the letters. There is no secret cover-up. The truth is that opposers are misrepresenting the facts of the matter and some JWs have been caught up in the lies and deceit and the nonfactual presentation by opposers and apostates. Here is apparently what really happened and it is in conjunction with the evidence and facts:

Brother Aulicino went to the UN on many occasions and was permitted to use the library facilities. But on this certain occasion he was told he could not use a certain facility without a NGO pass. Maybe it was an employee who had it wrong or maybe he was trying to use a facility that contained books or documents that was only for those with NGO status. He therefore requested an application.

The application was filled out and submitted with no signature. NGO status was granted. And the WTS proceeded to use that status for 10 years to obtain information from the UN. When the Guardian came forth with the story and the document that had the Criteria for NGO associates the WTBTS realized that they could not remain a NGO member if that was the criteria. They withdrew immediately. Inquiries were made and letters were written answering the inquiries. The letters are not lies. They speak truth and are in accord with the proof submitted above.

However, it is admitted in the letter by the WTS that when they realized this language they withdrew immediately. I think it is understandable that since the application said nothing about supporting the UN and since the letter from Mr. Hoeffel said nothing about it, who would have thought to say, "Wait a minute. We need to go look at the UN bylaws” which were confusing at the time and even the language was unclear as to the requirements for NGOs associated with the UN by the DPI. Can we honestly say any of us would have thought to do that? I rather doubt it. Especially since we thought we were doing this merely to get access to certain facilities. And remember this is before the advent of the Internet where information is at our fingertips with the push of a button.


The DPI Letter of 2004

Accusers use the DPI’s letter concerning the WT’s association as damning evidence against the WTS and their involvement as a NGO. But is it really? What does it really say and just as important, what does it not say? Here is the link to that letter:

http://www.randytv.com/secret/march4unlettertext.htm

Lets examine it closely and in detail.

“4 March 2004
To Whom It May Concern,
Recently the NGO Section has been receiving numerous inquiries regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI). This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities.”

It must be mentioned here that these statements are made after the fact. Nowhere on the application or thereafter, the form for confirming representatives was it said that “By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.”
‘Now he tells us!’ one might be inclined to exclaim. We have to wonder why this criterion did not appear on the original application or registration form or the letter sent out to new NGOs associated with the UN in 1992. We have to wonder if the DPI office is now trying to cover their own ineptness in not clearly stating the criteria and what the NGO was agreeing to at the time of the application. It is much like signing a contract with someone and then 10 years later saying, “Oh yeah, by the way, I forgot to put on the contract that you are also agreeing to such and such.” Why does not Mr. Hoeffel here inform us that the original application from the early 1990’s and the subsequent forms confirming the representatives did not state the criteria nor have a statement of acknowledgement as to what the NGO was agreeing to? Who is really being untrustworthy and is trying to hide the facts? Is it the WTS whose explanation is in accord with the paper trail of evidence or is it the DPI who is trying to insinuate that the criteria and agreement to support the UN as a NGO was clearly there on the original application for all to see when clearly it was not?

The letter continues:
“In October 2001, the Main Representative of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York to the United Nations, Giro Aulicino, requested termination of its association with DPI. Following this request, the DPI made a decision to disassociate the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York as of 9 October 2001.


Please be informed that it is the policy of the Department of Public Information of the United Nations to keep correspondence between the United Nations and NGOs associated with DPI confidential. However, please see below the paragraph included in all letters sent to NGOs approved for association in 1992:
“The principal purpose of association of non-governmental organizations with the United Nations Department of Public Information is the redissemination of information in order to increase public understanding of the principles, activities and achievements of the United Nations and its Agencies. Consequently, it is important that you should keep us informed about your organization's information programme as it relates to the United Nations, including sending us issues of your relevant publications.”
Notice that the letter sent out to NGOs in 1992 mentions only that “The principal purpose of association of non-governmental organizations with the United Nations Department of Public Information is the redissemination of information…” Of course the WT was willing to abide by this since along with information about the UN they would be showing where the UN could not solve the problems of man but only God’s Kingdom could do so. Certainly a good witness would be given to any who read this dissemination of information.

But it is quite interesting what is not said by the DPI in quoting the letter sent to NGOs in the early 1990’s. Surely if that original form letter sent out to all new NGOs stated that the criteria for the NGO was to support the UN and its Charter, then that would have here been quoted to give further proof that the newly associated WTS was aware of the commitment they were making. Instead, in a misleading way, that criteria is now being set forth in this 2004 letter as if it were set forth in the previous original letter.

Back to the letter:
“We are enclosing a brochure on the “The United Nations and Non-Governmental Organizations”, which will give you some information regarding the NGO relationship.”

It is interesting that Mr. Hoeffel does not here enclose a 1992 brochure showing that the ‘criteria’ was to ‘support’ the UN and its charter and thus confirming further his point. Again we are left in the lurch wondering why he did not take this opportunity to confirm that the brochure from 1992 clearly stated this criteria. The fact is that a 1992 brochure is yet to be found at the time of this writing and thus we are unable to examine it. There is even some question as to whether this brochure was ever sent out at all. Recall that previously we have noted a report by the Secretary-General dated Sept 8, 1999 in which this proposal was set forth under section 24:

“It was also proposed that each NGO should receive an orientation/ welcome booklet and/or session upon obtaining formal status with the UN. The information should include specifics about the NGO liaison offices in the UN system, including names, contacts, locations. The booklet should reinforce mutual rights and responsibilities, as well as practical guidelines for the functioning of NGOs within physical structures and protocols of the UN, including how to follow debates and so forth.”
So what exactly are the contents of this brochure of 1992 if it even does exist? We do not know for sure. But we do know what the 1994 brochure says and it has changed considerably from the current brochure.
Finally the letter continues in showing the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI:
“In addition, the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI include the following:
• that the NGO share the ideals of the UN Charter;
• operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;
• have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;
• have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting the cooperation of the media.
We expect that you will share this information with your concerned colleagues, as we are unable to address the scores of duplicate requests regarding the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society that are being directed to our offices. Thank you for your interest in the work of the United Nations.
Sincerely,
Paul Hoeffel
Chief
NGO Section
Department of Public Information”

Many of the criteria listed above are again published after the fact and do not appear on the original application, subsequent form for representatives, or even in the 1994 brochure. And here it is mentioned once again that "the NGO share the ideals of the UN Charter." We have discussed this previously but at this point it might be appropriate to ask:


Is It Unscriptural to ‘Support’ or Share the Ideals of the UN?

The WTBTS and JWs are certainly no part of the UN. As a matter of fact, even when they were a NGO associated with the UN it was clearly stated by the UN themselves that "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status." However, there has been much ado over a single word in the UN resolutions and criteria concerning NGOs. That word being ‘support.’ Although the evidence shows that the WTS did not sign or fill out one document that said they would support the UN, lets assume for the sake of argument that the WTS did agree to ‘support’ the UN and its charter. What would that mean exactly?

Of course the word support is such a general and broad term and may be taken in many different ways. The UN documents do not specifically define just what ‘support’ means. Here are some definitions of support: ‘uphold or defend as valid; to furnish corroborating evidence for; to act in a secondary or subordinate role to.’ What does it mean to support something using these definitions?

By supplying information on what the UN is doing or has done we would be supporting them in that we are furnishing ‘corroborating evidence.’ Since the DPI is there to disseminate information it is reasonable to believe that the definition ‘to furnish corroborating evidence for’ would be the applicable definition for the word ‘support’ in this case.

However it is also true that by being in subjection to the governments including the UN as Romans 13 tells us to do, we are supporting them in that we are acting in a ‘secondary or subordinate role.’ We do this by being obedient to the laws of the land, paying our taxes, and so on.

But again just for the sake of argument lets say that the definition to ‘uphold or defend as valid’ is what is meant by the word ‘support.’ Certainly we support the constitution of the country that we live in. We obey and support or uphold the laws as valid, we believe it is right to send our children to the schools, we support the economy by buying and selling and working, we use the courts to advance true worship or defend our rights as individuals. Many JWs sign documents which state that they will protect the constitution or laws of the land that they reside in, because they see no conflict in upholding stated valid principles of the government when those principles are promoting good.

The original principles and goals expressed in the UN charter are: “to maintain international peace and security; to suppress acts of aggression that threaten world peace; to encourage friendly relations among nations; to protect the fundamental freedoms of all peoples without discrimination based on race, sex, language, or religion; and to achieve international cooperation in solving economic, social, and cultural problems."

Are those ideals valid and deserving of our support? Are they not noble and commendable goals and ideals? For a certainty we agree that aggression is wrong, that people should not be discriminated against because of race, sex, religion, or language. We long for and uphold peace. Is there anything here that compromises our beliefs? Is there anything wrong with using the UN in upholding religious freedom and human rights of our brothers as long as we do not join and become incorporated in that organization? Can’t we promote and support its ideals without promoting it as the Kingdom of God on earth? Can’t we use the support system of the courts and other avenues of the UN and other countries to gain religious freedom for our brothers?

Even the 1996 resolution by the ECOSOC concerning a NGO’s support of the UN states this about NGOs: “3. The organization shall undertake to support the work of the United Nations and to promote knowledge of its principles and activities, in accordance with its own aims and purposes and the nature and scope of its competence and activities.” You will please note that the NGO is to support the work of the UN, “in accordance with its own aims and purposes…” This means that the particular NGO would not support all the aims of the UN but only those “aims and purposes” in the “scope of its competence and activities.” Of course in the case of the WTS those ‘aims and purposes’ would be in the field of religious freedom and human rights. That is the “scope of its competence and activities.” There is certainly nothing wrong with supporting that type of work and using whatever avenues is available for assistance, is there? Here is a link to that resolution:

http://www.un.org/documents/ecosoc/res/1996/eres1996-31.htm

Lets not forget that one of the main interests of the UN is human rights. If the UN wants to come to the aid of the brothers being persecuted for their religious beliefs should we not support that. The UN has not yet attacked God's people and proved itself to be an enemy of God to that extent. Didn't Paul appeal to Rome (which later proved to be the disgusting thing) for help when he was being persecuted? Also didn't Jesus say "Give Ceaser's things to Ceaser"?

Furthermore, please note an article from the October 1, 1995 Watchtower concerning our view of the United Nations. Here the following is written:

“THE CHRISTIAN VIEW OF THE UNITED NATIONS

In Bible prophecy, human governments are often symbolized by wild beasts. (Daniel 7:6, 12, 23; 8:20-22) Hence, for many decades the Watchtower magazine has identified the wild beasts of Revelation chapters 13 and 17 with today’s worldly governments. This includes the United Nations, which is depicted in Revelation chapter 17 as a scarlet-colored beast with seven heads and ten horns.

However, this Scriptural position does not condone any form of disrespect toward governments or their officials. The Bible clearly states: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.”—Romans 13:1, 2.

Accordingly, Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are maintaining strict political neutrality, do not interfere with human governments. They never foment revolution or participate in acts of civil disobedience. Rather, they recognize that some form of government is necessary to maintain law and order in human society.—Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1.

Jehovah’s Witnesses view the United Nations organization as they do other governmental bodies of the world. They acknowledge that the United Nations continues to exist by God’s permission. In harmony with the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses render due respect to all governments and obey them as long as such obedience does not require that they sin against God.—Acts 5:29.”

Paul said at 1 Cor. 7:31, “and those making use of the world as those not using it to the full…” So in view of these scriptures, reasoning on the matter, and in view of the definitions connected to the word ‘support’, would it really be wrong to say that you agree to ‘support’ the UN, especially so in the field in which the WTS specializes in, that of human rights and freedom? And yet, our brothers in Bethel upon realizing the new wording of the UN’s criteria for association as a NGO, even though it may not be unscriptural to remain a NGO with the UN chose to withdraw membership rather than risk stumbling others. Is that not commendable and loving on their part? They should be praised for their stance rather than criticized.


The Awake Articles—Propaganda for the UN?

Many opposers try to point to the articles written about the UN during the 1990’s and early 2000’s showing that they were written to blatantly disseminate and promote information on the UN and used the many brothers in the field to distribute them. Lets examine some of the claims about the articles and what they really say.

Here is a quote from the writer of one online essay condemning the WTS for its association with the UN as a NGO:



“Perhaps the Watchtower’s most blatant propagandizing in support of the United Nations was the November 22nd, 1998, issue of Awake. It seems the Watchtower Society willingly did its part in commemorating the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by writing a ten page article to publicize the event”

Is this assessment accurate? You decide. Here is the final few paragraphs of the ‘most blatant propagandizing’ article of Nov 22, 1998:



“Just as the Bible shows that the Creator is the source of the faculties that underlie human rights, it also informs us that he is the source of a world government that ensures them. This heavenly government is invisible but real. In fact, millions of people, perhaps unwittingly, pray for this world government when saying in what is commonly called the Lord’s Prayer: “Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.” (Matthew 6:10) The God-appointed Head of that Kingdom government is the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ.—Isaiah 9:6.

This world government will succeed in creating a truly global and lasting human rights culture by, among other things, eliminating war forever. The Bible prophesies: “He [the Creator] is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; the wagons he burns in the fire.”—Psalm 46:9

How soon will this happen on a global scale? The Bible study program provided by Jehovah’s Witnesses includes a satisfying answer to this question. We encourage you to get acquainted with this program. If you care about human rights, you will not be disappointed.”

Another accusatory statement by same writer quoted above:



“In keeping with the spirit of the "Decade for Human Rights Education," a few months after commemorating the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Human Rights, the January 8th, 1999, Awake magazine published yet another series of human rights articles; this time transparently pandering to the United Nations to protect the rights of Jehovah’s Witnesses…”

Is this factual or not? Again the final paragraphs of the article:

“The Bible promises that soon mankind will be united in pure worship of the one true God. This unity will result in a true worldwide fraternity, or brotherhood, where respect for others will prevail. Humans will no longer be plagued by ignorance, as God’s Kingdom will teach people Jehovah’s ways, thus satisfying their intellectual, emotional, and spiritual needs. (Isaiah 11:9; 30:21; 54:13) Real equality and liberty will cover the earth. (2 Corinthians 3:17) By acquiring an accurate understanding of God’s purposes for mankind, you can counter ignorance and intolerance.”

Another statement by the same accuser:

“So, in keeping with its obligation to inform the pubic of a broad range of UN-related issues, the July 22nd, 1999, Awake, featured a series of articles on aging.”

Final paragraphs of July 22, 1999 Awake:

“This, however, does not mean that there is no hope for life without a finish line—life without aging and death. First, it is reasonable to believe that the all-wise Creator of human life and other forms of life in all their awesome varieties can heal any genetic irregularities and supply the energy needed to continue man’s life forever. Second, this is exactly what the Creator has promised to do. After he imposed the death sentence on the first humans, God revealed several times that his purpose for humans to live forever on earth had not changed. For instance, he gives the assurance: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29) What do you need to do to experience the fulfillment of this promise?

The first step toward attaining everlasting life in the future is also education—Bible education. Jesus Christ stated: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) Taking in knowledge about Jehovah God, the Creator, about Jesus Christ, and about the ransom arrangement that God has provided is the only form of education that will prepare a person to take the first step on the road to everlasting life.—Matthew 20:28; John 3:16.

Jehovah’s Witnesses conduct a program of Bible education that can assist you to acquire this life-giving Bible knowledge. Visit one of their Kingdom Halls to learn more about this free program, or ask them to visit you at a convenient time. You will see that the Bible contains solid evidence that the time is near when life will no longer be hindered by hurdles and limited by a finish line. True, death has ruled for millenniums, but it will soon be defeated forever. What a thrilling prospect for old and young alike!”

And still another accusation by the same:

“For example, the UN declared that 1979 was the "International Year of the Child." More than likely the December 8th, 2000, issue of the Awake magazine was also one that Bethel sent to the DPI reviewers as proof of their ongoing support for United Nations’ global agenda. That particular issue of the Awake is devoted to praising UNICEF and publicizing the "International Year of the Child."”

Final paragraphs of DEC 8, 2000 Awake promoting God’s Kingdom:

“A Divine Government to Provide the Complete Solution
The writer John Ruskin, mentioned in the preceding article, strongly believed that “the first duty of a State is to see that every child born therein shall be well housed, clothed, fed, and educated, till it attain years of discretion.” Ruskin admitted, however, that “in order to [effect] this the Government must have an authority over the people of which we now do not so much as dream.”

Only a government with divine backing could have the benign authority about which Ruskin spoke. And just such a government has been promised—the one that Jesus mentioned at Matthew 6:9, 10. Once this government of God’s making has taken total control of earth’s affairs, it will exercise its authority over all peoples—housing, clothing, feeding, and educating all its subjects, including children. (Isaiah 65:17-25) But this perfect government will do even more.

Under God’s Kingdom humans will be enabled to rear children in a balanced way. (Job 33:24-26) Young folks will be raised in the spirit of peace and universal brotherhood, the ideal set forth in the UN Declaration of the Rights of the Child. (Psalm 46:8, 9) Never again will there be the need for an International Year of the Child or for a Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Restoring perfect health to parents and to disabled children will be a simple task for Christ Jesus, the King of this heavenly government. The miracles of healing that he performed while he was on the earth are a guarantee. (Luke 6:17-19; John 5:3-9; 9:1-7) Even resurrecting dead children and dead parents will not be beyond his power to accomplish!—Matthew 9:18-25.

What a joy to know that the time for God to act in behalf of earth’s children is near!”

Once again another accusation by the writer of all the above accusations:

“Many articles appear to be written primarily for the purpose of informing the public about the United Nations proposed solutions. For instance, a series of articles in the August 22nd, 1997, Awake, on the water crises, took the opportunity to tout the UN’s plans and achievements,”

Final paragraphs of Aug 22, 1997 Awake:

“Basis for Optimism

The future, however, is not as gloomy as many predict. Why? Because the solution to the world’s water crisis does not rest with humans; it rests with God. He alone has both the ability and the will to solve all water problems.

God will not allow the water crisis to continue forever. The Bible foretells that the time is coming when he will act in behalf of all those worldwide who wish to live under the loving rulership of his heavenly government, which will soon take control of the earth.—Matthew 6:10.



That government, or Kingdom, will bring an end to waterborne diseases, along with all other illnesses. The Bible assures God’s loyal ones: “[God] will certainly bless your bread and your water; and [he will] indeed turn malady away from your midst.” (Exodus 23:25) Moreover, the polluters of the earth’s waters will be done away with as he ‘brings to ruin those ruining the earth.’—Revelation 11:18.
All the earth will flourish under God’s loving care. Never again will people endlessly struggle to find fresh, clean water. Almighty God, who always speaks the truth, inspired his prophet to write concerning the future: “For in the wilderness waters will have burst out, and torrents in the desert plain. And the heat-parched ground will have become as a reedy pool, and the thirsty ground as springs of water.”—Isaiah 35:6, 7; Hebrews 6:18.”

Same writers claim:

“As another example, the August 8th, 1997, Awake, discussing the problem of food shortages, is really just a disguised advertisement for the United Nations World Food Summit held the previous year”

Final paragraphs of Awake Aug 8 1997 again pointing to God’s Kingdom:

“Who Will Feed the Hungry?



History has amply demonstrated that despite all mankind’s good intentions, “to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jeremiah 10:23) So it is unlikely that on their own humans will ever provide food for all. Greed, mismanagement, and egotism have led mankind to the precipice. FAO Director-General Diouf commented: “What is required in the final analysis is the transformation of hearts, minds and wills.”

That is something only God’s Kingdom can do. Centuries ago, in fact, Jehovah prophesied with regard to his people: “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.”—Jeremiah 31:33.

When Jehovah God prepared mankind’s original garden home, he provided man with “all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed” as food. (Genesis 1:29) That provision was abundant, nutritious, and accessible. It was what all mankind needed to satisfy their food needs.
God’s purpose has not changed. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) Long ago he gave assurance that he alone will satisfy mankind’s every need through his Kingdom by Christ, providing food for all, eradicating poverty, controlling natural disasters, and eliminating conflicts. (Psalm 46:8, 9; Isaiah 11:9; compare Mark 4:37-41; 6:37-44.) At that time “the earth itself will certainly give its produce; God, our God, will bless us.” “There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; on the top of the mountains there will be an overflow.”—Psalm 67:6; 72:16.”

More of the same unfounded accusations about Awake, Nov. 8, 1999:

“Most people probably do not even know that there is such an agency as the United Nations Commission on Narcotic Drugs; but the Watchtower Society has seen to it that its readership is made aware—if only superficially—of even obscure UN agencies.”

Final paragraphs of that same Awake Magazine:

“A Global Solution That Will Work



A few courageous traffickers have abandoned the drug trade. And various forms of rehabilitation have helped thousands of users to overcome their addiction. But, as the World Drug Report acknowledges, “for the long-term, heavy drug user, sustained abstinence is the exception rather than the rule.” Sadly, for each addict who is rehabilitated, several new victims are ensnared. Supply and demand keep on growing.

If the war on drugs is to be won, there must be a global solution because the problem is already a global one. In this regard the United Nations Commission on Narcotic Drugs notes: “While drug abuse, drug trafficking and the criminality connected to the drug problem were in most countries perceived as one of the main threats to security, the public was less aware of the fact that illicit drugs were a global problem that could no longer be solved by national efforts alone.”

But will the governments of the world band together to eradicate this global scourge? The results so far have not been encouraging. The Bible, however, points to a heavenly government that will transcend national boundaries as the definitive solution. The Bible assures us that God’s Kingdom, ruled by Jesus Christ, will last “forever and ever.” (Revelation 11:15) Hence, under God’s Kingdom, divine education will ensure that the demand for drugs will disappear. (Isaiah 54:13) And the social and emotional problems that now provide fertile soil for drug abuse will be gone forever.—Psalm 55:22; 72:12; Micah 4:4.

Are You in Need of Help?

Even now, hope in God’s Kingdom in the hands of Christ is motivating people to say no to drugs. If you would like more information, please contact Jehovah’s Witnesses in your area.”

Needless to say, we could go on and on. Still the question needs to be asked: Do these articles promote the UN or God’s Kingdom? They all, without exception, are showing how God’s Kingdom will succeed in remedying the problems of mankind whereas the UN and the governments of this world have failed. They are respectful of the UN and the governments as well they should be thus appealing to people who hold the governments in high esteem. They are tactful in the way the message is brought forth thus not turning people off when reading it. Does it sound reasonable that every article about the UN should conclude with how the UN is the wild beast and will be ultimately destroyed by God’s Kingdom? That is absurd! But to be sure there were some during the decade of the 1990’s that did just that. Here are a few of them: Awake 12-8-90, 7-8-96; Watchtower 5-1-93, 10-1-95. I, for one, am proud to distribute these thought provoking magazines that point to God’s Kingdom as the solution to man’s problems to persons who have no hope for the future.

And so the only conclusions that can be reached is that the writer of the above claims and accusations either did not read the entire articles from the Awake or his agenda is to misrepresent the facts to support his view and interpretation for personal reasons or apostates and opposers have simply misled him.

What about Watchtower and Awake magazines written before and after the WT was a NGO with the DPI/UN? Would they also be considered as ‘propaganda for the UN’ if the WT had been a NGO at the time? Were the articles different before and after their NGO status with the UN? Here is one from the 1970’s: Awake Feb. 22, 1979. Are we to assume when examining this article that the WTS had a 12-year plot to become a NGO with the UN and thus began writing “UN propaganda?” That of course is again absurd and unreasonable!

Here are a few quotes from it:

“Commendable Goals


The goals of the United Nations organization are commendable. “The purposes of the United Nations are,” so reads its charter, “to maintain international peace and security.”
Article 55 of the charter says: “With a view to the creation of conditions of stability and well-being which are necessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, the United Nations shall promote: a) higher standards of living, full employment, and conditions of economic and social progress and development; b) solutions of international economic, social, health, and related problems; and international cultural and educational cooperation; and c) universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion.”
Fine goals, but to what extent have they been reached? To what extent can they be reached? An article in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung in 1965 called attention to certain facts that still apply today 14 years later: “A balance of twenty years of UN history and a long list of conciliation and mediation measures shows that the United Nations have been successful in cases where the ‘super powers’ have not been directly involved.”
The article called attention to the fine work done by organs of the United Nations in other fields, such as by the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) and by a host of others.
There are U.N. agencies, for example, dealing with the peaceful uses of outer space, of atomic energy and of the seabed. Questions of the environment, industrial development and economic development also come up for consideration. There is a United Nations Fund for Drug Abuse Control. Much has been done in the way of disaster relief. One of the most remarkable achievements was caring for the needs of millions of Bangladeshi refugees after the war with Pakistan.
A Committee on Crime Prevention and Control has also done fine work. The first major intergovernmental conference ever devoted solely to women was sponsored by this organization in Mexico City in 1975.”

Here is another example, Awake December 8, 1974, What the Poor Nations Are Saying:

“In the spring of 1974, the “underdeveloped” countries sponsored a special session of the United Nations General Assembly. This three-week session was devoted to their problems, especially the use of their raw materials by the richer countries.”

“United Nations Secretary-General Kurt Waldheim answers:

“The single most devastating indictment of our current world civilization is the continued existence of stark, pervasive poverty among two-thirds of the world population.”

“It permeates every phase of life in developing countries: in the malnutrition of children, in the outbreaks of diseases, in widespread unemployment, in low literacy rates, in overcrowded cities.”

Ah, now it is becoming clearer. The WTS had a 17-year plot to disseminate information for the UN in order to become an associative NGO! That is almost comical. Needless to say there are others. And of course, all the articles close with, as the accusers will say, the ‘token’ references to God’s Kingdom and that it will accomplish what manmade governments have failed to accomplish.

Do the WT publications show a change since withdrawing membership as a NGO associated with the DPI? Could the articles written continue to be viewed as ‘UN propaganda” if the WTS was still associated as a NGO? Lets examine some of these articles in Awake magazine since 2001.

March 22, 2005 Awake, Mountains Vital for Life On Earth is one recent example. Here is a quote from it, “The United Nations Environmental Programme sponsored the International Year of Mountains 2002. To emphasize mankind’s dependence on the mountains, organizers coined the phrase “We Are All Mountain People.” They aimed to increase awareness of the problems facing the world’s mountains and seek solutions to protect them. This concern is a valid one…” Other references are made to the UN and what they have done. And as always the article closes with what God’s Kingdom will do. Can you not just here the accusations, “Most people did not even know that 2002 was the International Year of mountains. But here again the WTS has seen to it that its readership is made aware of even obscure International Years.”

Another example is Awake January 8, 2005, Can Planet Earth Be Saved? Here is a quote from it: “True, world leaders have made commendable efforts to curb pollution, deforestation, and other environmental problems. Starting with the UN Conference on Human Environment in 1972, and followed by other conferences at regular intervals, up to 163 nations have met to endorse action plans.” Imagine if this had been written in the 1990’s, we would no doubt here the same tired words from accusers, “More propaganda for the UN. Praising the 1972 conference and the commendable efforts of the UN.”

Awake February 22, 2003, Malnutrition “The Silent Emergency”. Of course, you can just imagine all the references made to the UN in this article. Here is one that would definitely be criticized if written during the time the WTS had NGO status with the UN, “…in 1996 the World Food Summit of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) set the goal of reducing the number of the world’s undernourished by half—some 400 million people—by the year 2015. Commendably, some progress has been made.” Listen! Do you here the accusatory comments about the blatant way the WTS promotes the goals of the UN and informs us of the UN’s proposed solutions?

Lets take one final example although we could go on and on. Awake February 22, 2005, The Role of Mothers as Educators. Here the WTS on page 5 has the gall to put a picture of the UN Secretary-General, Kofi Annan, and quote what he said about women. What purpose could this possibly serve but to promote the UN and their agenda? Can’t you just here it!

And yet, the fact is, that all of these articles were written after the WTS withdrew its membership. Perhaps someone needs to tell them that they can stop their blatant promoting of the “UN propaganda” since they no longer need to disseminate such information. That is certainly a ridiculous statement but demonstrates just how absurd the previous accusations are about the WTS and their literature. Each article always closes with how God’s Kingdom, not the UN, will solve all the problems of man.


Did the WTS disseminate information about the UN? Of course they did. They did this long before they were a NGO with the DPI and they continue to do so. Did they give their publications to the UN as references? Yes, and why not? They all pointed to God's Kingdom! Does this make them a political partner with the UN? Well, if you disseminated information about Future Farmers of America (FFA) would you then become their agricultural partner? If you disseminated information about a sports organization would you be considered their athletical partner? And if you disseminated information about a religious organization are you their religious partner? If so then everyone disseminating information about the WTS is a partner of the WT. Apostates everywhere would cringe to hear that!
Arguments That the WT Has Condemned Itself
Many accusers have used the argument that the WT is a hypocrit because of its view of the YMCA. The January 1, 1979 WT explains:
"In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy.Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others. 1 Cor. 8:11-13."


And so according to one accuser: "The Watchtower claims they only joined to get a mere entry pass to the library. Yet, by their own words, in doing so they have accepted and endorsed the general objectives and principles of the UN organization, in turn, affecting the consciences of many of Jehovah's witnesses. Also by their own words they have committed apostasy."

But is this not like comparing apples and oranges? The YMCA is a religious organization. While according to the Bible we are to be in subjection to governments of the world, obeying their laws, registering in certain programs (such as young men have to do when turning 18 as respects the military draft), using the governments to obtain religious freedom, and even being citizens, we are under no such obligation as respects the false religions of this world. In fact we are told at Revelation 18:4 to 'Get out from among' false religion. But we are told at Romans 13:1 to 'Be in subjection to the superior authorities." Using programs of the government for our benefit in no way compares to using programs of false religion for our benefit.

Another WT that accusers try to use against them is the June 1, 1991 WT p. 17. Here it states:
"A recent book gives an idea when it states: “No less than twenty-four Catholic organizations are represented at the UN. Several of the world’s religious leaders have visited the international organization. Most memorable were the visits of His Holiness Pope Paul VI during the General Assembly in 1965 and of Pope John Paul II in 1979. Many religions have special invocations, prayers, hymns and services for the United Nations. The most important examples are those of the Catholic, the Unitarian-Universalist, the Baptist and the Bahai faiths.”

The argument is then made by accusers as follows: "In one of their 1991 magazines the Society criticised among others the Catholic Church for having up to 24 organisations signed up with the UN. An inspection of the context in the original text of the quote they used, shows that these were signed up as NGOs. Their quote did not reveal this fact. Later that same year they applied for NGO status themselves. If they didn't think there was anything wrong with it why did they criticise others for signing up as NGOs? The quote also casts doubt on the claim that they did not understand the purpose of NGOs if they did understand that it was wrong for other churches and a means for them to curry favor with the UN."

Is that really the case? Or is this just another case of twisted reasoning by opposers of truth?

Please take note of this link: http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/ngo/pdf/INF_List.pdf
You will here find many Catholic organization in consultative status with the UN. As has been previously pointed out and explained in detail the WTS did not have consultative status with the UN. NO, the WT was not condemning the Catholic Church for doing something that they themselves were also doing. They were merely pointing out that the Catholic Church has no qualms with associating themselves in politics and along with its many other political endeavors it also had 24 organizations associated with the UN.




Will You Give Your Brothers the Benefit of the Doubt?

Here is part of a letter from the WTS concerning the matter written to a brother in Germany:

“Dear Brother ***,
What makes us always a bit sad is the fact that some of our brothers seem to have a stronger confidence in the media and reports launched by our opposers than to statements made by the Organization by means of which they have learnt the truth. Of course we expect to be reproached, slandered and that any tiny occasion is used to put us in a bad light. We expect that and we are even happy about it because we endure this for Jehovah and his son (Matthew 5:11; 1 Peter 4:14). But we are hurt, when some of our brothers uncritically accept those presentations, getting set against Jehovah's organization or even letting themselves become a mouthpiece. Surely, no one of us wants to belong to those mentioned in Matthew 24:49 and 3 John 10. Of course, Satan would be happy if he urged us that far.
Our opposers always spread the idea that we do some secret operations while keeping the publishers ignorant. These accusations are likely as old as Christianity itself - with the difference that today modern media are used. That does not mean that we condemn these media in general which can be seen by the fact that the Headquarters and some branches run their own Websites. But warnings are not without reason, because through the Internet you can easily get in touch with the thoughts of apostates, which the Bible clearly warns against (2 John 8-11).
Especially in intellectual circles of society it is viewed as "chique" to doubt everything on principle and to insinuate bad motives everywhere. How bad would it be if that destructive-critical spirit was transferred to God's people. Paul said, love "believes all things" (1 Corinthians 13:7). That does not mean credulity but a positive confidence in Jehovah, his word and his organization. Of course, Jehovah's organization is not perfect. It was not in the first century and it was not at the time of the judges and kings of Israel.
Nevertheless, those putting their confidence in the leading of the men appointed by God were blessed.

One example for this is Absalom’s rebellion. He reproached God's anointed king David when he told those who came with a legal case to the king: “See, your matters are good and straight; but there is no one from the king giving you a hearing.” (2 Samuel 15:3).
Maybe he even gave examples of persons who seemed to have been treated unjustly. But Jehovah did not bless those believing Absalom but those sticking to David who was appointed by God and who had obviously Jehovah's blessings. Surely, we want to follow Ittai's example who firmly stood by Jehovah's anointed (2 Samuel 15:21).
We hope that these statements are helpful to you. In the confidence that Jehovah is giving us all the power to endure we are sending
Christian greetings
Your brothers”

I concur with the letter. Since there is no real proof of deceitfulness and lying (in truth the evidence shows otherwise) should we not, if we are JWs, give our brothers the benefit of the doubt and not impute or imply bad motives. If you wish to judge them in a condemnatory way that is your right. But that would be like insisting that a brother is lying no matter what explanation he offers and even though, when examining the facts, it becomes clear that he is not lying after all.

Of course we realize that there are those who will criticize the WTS regardless of what they do. For example, if they had decided not to apply for NGO status you have to wonder if those same criticizers would have taken the other side of the argument saying, 'I can't believe they will not use every avenue available to help those who are being persecuted. The UN charter clearly says that NGOs are not incorporated in the UN. Just another example of manmade dogma causing more harm and suffering when it could easily be prevented. Of course, the leaders sit up there in their comfortable ivory tower while the insignificant masses suffer because of their religious rules and regulations.'

But for those who are sincerely seeking the truth about this matter I hope this information has helped. And if anyone has been disfellowshipped or disassociated himself over the NGO matter why not do this: Offer an apology for accusing the brothers of spiritual adultery and of lying. Tell them you now realize there is not enough evidence to boldly and unlovingly call our brothers liars. Tell them you were wrong for doing that. You were wrong for listening to the exaggerations of apostates and opposers who want to discredit JWs. If the WTS at the headquarters is purposely deceiving us (which the proof shows otherwise) then we will leave that for Jehovah and Jesus to handle since we don't know for sure and we can't read hearts. They are more than qualified to do so. Write a letter stating these things and that you want to come back to Jehovah's organization. You will be glad that you did!

Yes, we can say, without a doubt, that the truth about ‘the truth about the Truth’ is this: Jehovah’s Witnesses as an organization are not guilty of spiritual adultery or of lying and scheming to hide it. Our organization is like no other religious organization on earth today. It is not a perfect organization but it is the organization today that has been blessed by Jehovah. It is the one that Jehovah has used to teach us the basic truths of the Bible. And it is the one who is bringing the truth about Jehovah, his Son, and the Kingdom to millions of people around the globe today.

posted by thirdwitness at 8:16 AM

88 Comments:

Blogger ablebodiedman said...

Yes, the Lord’s Day comes before his arrival as a thief in the night.


Good rational!


Thanks for that.


regards


ablebodiedman

(also banned from paradise cafe for giving incontrovertable evidence that the 1914 doctrine is rock solid)

8:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a well thought out post,using sound reasoning based on God's word.
Hi to you ablebodiedman!! I wondered what happened to you.



[I also was banned from the cafe but it was done silently and without a reason given.[no red dot against my name
have written to watchman wanting to sort out the matter according to matthew18:15 however have not received a reply]

9:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You seem to have researched the NGO controversy very well. There are however a few things you haven't mentioned.

1) Some websites have shown that the Witnesses had more than just the one NGO signed up and even as much as six others in other parts of the world, which cannot be explained by their need of using the research facilities at UN headquarters.

2) In one of their 1991 magazines the Society criticised among others the Catholic Church for having up to 24 organisations signed up with the UN. An inspection of the context in the original text of the quote they used, shows that these were signed up as NGOs. Their quote did not reveal this fact. Later that same year they applied for NGO status themselves. If they didn't think there was anything wrong with it why did they criticise others for signing up as NGOs? The quote also casts doubt on the claim that they did not understand the purpose of NGOs if they did understand that it was wrong for other churches and a means for them to curry favor with the UN.

3) Some sites have documents that show that the various NGOs of the Witnesses attended meetings/workgroups with other NGOs or government agencies in which they represented themselves as NGOs as well. This shows there must have been some status attached to it other than being merely a researcher and that apparently the Society does not have full confidence that Jehovah will resolve the current world problems through his Kingdom.

Unless you address these points, I think you have not refuted the charge that the NGO status of the Society was wrong in Jehovah's eyes. I still remain of the opinion that it was wrong.

12:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On this web site you have criticized others for namecalling and other undignified behavior. Yet you yourself resort to this by saying about the second point of my previous comment:

"Is that really the case? Or is this just another case of twisted reasoning by opposers of truth?"

So instead of considering the possibility that those who ask you to clarify a few points are also sincerely trying to establish the truth about this matter, you automatically brand me as an opposer of truth! And where is the proof that my reasoning is twisted? You say:

"Please take note of this link: http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/ngo/pdf/INF_List.pdf
You will here find many Catholic organization in consultative status with the UN. As has been previously pointed out and explained in detail the WTS did not have consultative status with the UN. NO, the WT was not condemning the Catholic Church for doing something that they themselves were also doing. They were merely pointing out that the Catholic Church has no qualms with associating themselves in politics and along with its many other political endeavors it also had 24 organizations associated with the UN."

You make much of the fact that there are two different types of NGO. NGOs with ECOSOC with consultative status and NGOs associated with DPI. As you point out the Watchtower was signed up as the second type of NGO whereas the Catholic Church has many NGOs of the first type. So what? This merely indicates that the Catholic Church's involvement goes deeper since they have had connections with the UN for many more decades than the Society. They also have many NGOs of the second type as have many other religions. Obviously religious organizations can represent themselves at the UN in either way, but those who are given consultative status obtain more influence with the UN.

A look at the DPI/NGO Directory reveals that many other religious organizations are also not signed up as NGOs with consultative status with ECOSOC but as NGOs with DPI just as the Watchtower was. Among them are Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Bahai and Catholic organizations. Are we to suppose that although the Society regards all of them as part of Babylon the Great these are not actually riding the beast because they only have NGO status with DPI? The Society itself does not make this distinction that you make as is obvious from a quote of the Awake! of 22 October 2000 under the heading "Effort to Oust Vatican From UN" :

"According to Ms. Kissling, "the appropriate role for the Vatican is that of a NGO-the same as all the other NGOs representing Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais and other religious organisations." - g00 10/22 p. 31

The Vatican itself had actually managed to get itself into the UN as a "state with permanent observer privileges" but NGOs of other religions protested that the Vatican is a "religious authority and not a political state." The implication is clear: religions represent themselves at the UN not as member states but as NGOs. Notice also the language in the Watchtower article "Their Refuge-A Lie!":

"If Christendom had sought peace with Jehovah's King, Jesus Christ, then she would have avoided the coming flash flood.-Compare Luke 19:42-44.

10 However, she has not done so. Instead, in her quest for peace and security, she insinuates herself into the favor of the political leaders of the nations-this despite the Bible's warning that friendship with the world is enmity with God. (James 4:4) Moreover, in 1919 she strongly advocated the League of Nations as man's best hope for peace. Since 1945 she has put her hope in the United Nations. (Compare Revelation 17:3, 11.) How extensive is her involvement with this organization?

11 A recent book gives an idea when it states: "No less than twenty-four Catholic organizations are represented at the UN. Several of the world's religious leaders have visited the international organization. Most memorable were the visits of His Holiness Pope Paul VI during the General Assembly in 1965 and of Pope John Paul II in 1979. Many religions have special invocations, prayers, hymns and services for the United Nations. The most important examples are those of the Catholic, the Unitarian-Universalist, the Baptist and the Bahai faiths." - w91 6/1 p. 17 Their Refuge-A Lie!

As I pointed out in my previous comment, the context of the original quote clearly indicates that the 24 Catholic organizations in question are NGOs. Yet even though the writer of that book is very well acquainted with the workings of the UN and their associates he takes no trouble to point out that these are NGOs with consultative status. In fact he is talking about NGOs in general. The sentence immediately preceding the part that the Society quoted reads: "All major world religions are accredited to the United Nations as Non-Governmental Organizations." He then mentions the example of the 24 Catholic organizations.

In both instances the Society quotes knowledgable sources commenting that religious organizations represent themselves at the UN as NGOs. Neither one bothers to make a distinction between different sorts of NGOs as if that would matter. In the 1991 quote the Society leaves out the reference to NGOs altogether and trusts that its audience of Jehovah's Witnesses will agree with its condemnation of the Catholic Church on the sole mention of its being represented at the UN.

In the final analysis however whether the Society had consultative status or not is of little importance. As I pointed out in point 1 and 3 of my previous comment they were represented at the UN not just by one but by several NGOs and these used the status they did have in a way that clearly went beyond "research at the UN library." But you chose not to comment on this.

As an exemple I provide you with this link to an ECOSOC report on a Working Group for Minorities. As can be seen in paragraph 10 of this document at this meeting were present three NGOs with the following names: Association of Jehovah's Witnesses, European Association of Jehovah's Witnesses for the Protection of Religious Freedom, Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia.

Although these organizations have now disappeared from the NGO directories the evidence that they existed and represented Jehovah's Witnesses at meetings of UN bodies can not be erased from such documents on the UN's own websites. The question we should ask ourselves is not whether the Society had consultative status, but whether in representing themselves as NGOs at the UN they follow Jesus' example and the Bible's admonitions:

"36 Jesus answered: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source." - John 18:36

"31 Woe to those going down to Egypt for assistance, those who rely on mere horses, and who put their trust in war chariots, because they are numerous, and in steeds, because they are very mighty, but who have not looked to the Holy One of Israel and have not searched for Jehovah himself." - Isaiah 31:1

Jehovah did not view Egypt as the legitimate government for Israel to seek help from. Why would Jehovah then now condone the Society's NGOs attending UN "Working Groups" together with other religions who look up to the UN to help them with their problems? Also, in view of the fact that you and the Society believe that the UN is Satan's counterfeit of God's Kingdom and that Jesus already rules, should it not be even more urgent and clear to you that we should have nothing to do with the UN whatsoever?

7:48 PM  
Blogger James said...

Dear 3rdWitness:

I have enjoyed this expose greatly! Your sound reasoning on these facts and trying to look at things with the reason of a sound mind is reflected in your statements. I am sure certain apostates will simply hate what you have done. However, you should be proud that Jehovah takes notice of your support of true worship and of His Organization. This will not be quickly forgotten.

Jason Lloyal

9:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too enjoyed the effort in your extra reseach 3W. If all the other critics would spend so much time also finding facts like this along with their research, we would have much inforation, not just one sided assumptions. Thanks again for the information.

I wouldn't mind a reply to I-witness' post, but if not I does not make a difference, It seems he missed the point anyway lmao

11:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe the difference lies in the fact that some actually support the UNs work where others dont. Some (ie Vatican) actually look to the UN to solve problems that only God's Kingdom can take care of. They still praise it, the WT does not, it condemns it. All in all, the fact of the matter is, you are wasting time iwitness (IMO) when there are more important things to worry about, as said in the article, Jehovah will set unseen matters straight, those that we are ignorant of, for we are only human.

12:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to kinda agree with a previous comment though, what did the GB expect would happen? I mean, here is this organization which we know is Satan's organization, and the WT decides to buddy buddy with them in order to get access to some library? I mean, is it really all that worth it? Ever since their UN relationship has been over, I do not really see much of a difference in the Awake articles, how about you? I mean, they still have awesome pictures and great research...so where are they getting all this information now? Was it not sufficient enough before? Its just a little wishy washy :(

9:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous,

Did you read it? It was clearly shown that NGO status as it was laid out was not "buddy buddy". Look at it this way. Can you find anything in WT articles that smacks of wrong-doing in relation to the UN? If not, then what one is would be condemning is a shadow, a percieved relationship, a "buddy buddy" situation that is not found in written fact or theory (this Blog discussed many of the theoretical relations an NGO has). Do we really want to be suspicious based not on written word but on a imaginary type of relation that we have no grounds for?

Regarding the 24 churches and NGO status, it should also be noted that the condemnatory article did not even mention their NGO status, how then could they be condemning that? Clearly it condemned actions they took regardless of their NGO status. Actions the WT has never taken. The challenge/question is a sleight of hand.

AnonymousAlso

9:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the reply on "buddy buddy". But isnt it hypocritical to say we should avoid association with anything stumbling or that could repoach God's name such as wearing certain clothes or even wearing a shirt with a questionable symbol on it, perhaps related to pagan origins? Then the WT appears to the public eye "linked" to the UN...and not expect to be viewed in the same manner?

I really appreciate the efforts here, but telling people they can not do something because it could cause reproach on God's name then turning around and doing the same thing, then after 10 years it brings HUGE reproach on God's name and his organization. :S

2:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brothers,

To all who let thier faith in our organization sway on credibility due to an association with the UN:

All facts and evidence above is heresay. At the end of the day, the motivation behind the WTS's involvement with the UN to whatever degree it was does NOT change the doctrine, it does not change the Truth and furthermore, after knowing the Truth, if such a trivial association can dissuade your thoughts, ask yourself:

What is God's chosen organization on earth today, ours is not?

What other organization adheres to the truth's of the bible and santifies Jehovah's name?

Does this association with the UN make everything we have come to know untrue?

You aswell as I know that one true to themselves has studied the Truth and proved it's credibility using multiple sources and know with utmost confidence that the doctrine we hold is correct. I simply cannot imagine any other Christian doctrine which opposes our faith and views actually being more correct as, like mentioned above, we have all done the research. Nothing changes this.

Trust in Jehovah. With His divine guidance, I am sure there is no need to judge and consider the actions of your brothers as against biblical scripture. There are an abundant amount of assumable reasons why certain "groups" may have "attended" a meeting.

Ask yourself further, to what other gain or purpose to our organization would there have been for our organization to be registered as an NGO? Would there be any other benefit?

It is noteable to acknowledge the involvement of other religious organizations within the UN today with it's more and more demanding requirements. Do not think it negative for the WTS to have been guided away from such assocation by the hand of Jehovah at the appropriate time.

You forget that as circumstances change in society, so do requirements for life and new things arise all the time that may originally be harmless but later turn out to not be in harmony with our beliefs. I do not need to list the many many examples of this.

It is wise to trust in Jehovah's purpose and will and the light can only become brighter as the end approaches. The Truth is still The Truth, this debarcle does not prove it false.

8:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How truely sick those of you are who find the UN asscociation is not detestible to Jehovah. You are in fact the apostates and it will be proven.

8:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: You are in fact the apostates and it will be proven.

Yet what a great shame you did not take the time to "prove" it yourself, but rather just chose to throw a childish insult.

I guess the reason you can't prove it is because you simply choose to ignore the evidence.

Perhaps you should try countering the points raised and provide actual evidence and arguments - but no, instead you choose to throw a simple and stupid insult.

Well done. I'm like, so, convinced now and, wow, so blown away by your counter-argument.

Not.

5:13 AM  
Blogger James said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:42 PM  
Blogger James said...

Dear ThirdWitness and Al:

The work you have done here and on your two other sites to expose error and uphold the Truth and Jehovah's Organization is simply excellent! How anyone could continue to hold to the errors of such apostate men as Robert King and Timothy Kline along with others after reading and researching this information is beyond understanding. The research and reasoning you two have done and the way in which you have presented it is clear and appreciated.

Keep up your work in support of The Truth! Those on the side of Jehovah and his victorious Theocratic Organization and Kingdom trully appreciate what you have done here. If it helps even one person to come out from the mental darkness of apostate thinking and return to Jehovah's people it will all be worth it.

Your brother,
Jason Lloyal

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/default.html

3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Jason that if all this research assist just one person to come back it is worth all that you have done.

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds to me like the WTS was getting a library card and had to sign an application to get it.

The libraries are typically run by the government, are they not? Does getting a library card constitute that you are supporting the government?

If the library card application stated that you will "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic", then I would say you were supporting the government. Otherwise, you're merely using a government agency, even though God intends on destroying that government in the future.

11:19 PM  
Blogger tom sheepandgoats said...

Whoa!! Battle of the titans! Where did THIS site come from??

Right on, though!

Why should apostates own the internet?

Their writing is stridant and bitter. It shouldn't be too hard to outwrite them.

One individual who bills himself as THE watchman! Doesn't that say it all? Do you think our man suffers from high self-esteem?

4:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sometimes I think the WBTS doesn't do enough to counter-act all the stinky BS on the internet. So this is good. I also believe Jehovah is allowing it, to test people. Just like Jesus tested people with the "drink my blood, yet my flesh" comment. It thinned out those without true faith, really quick.

Good job.

10:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watchtower needed to go through this whole process just to have access to the library?

7:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Third witness, I found this sight responding to your research and comments. It is always good to look at both sides of the wall.

It is very interesting the points made at this sight in response to yours: http://yhwhwatchman.blogspot.com/2005/10/watchtowers-ngo-affair-rebuttal_19.html

7:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Third witness, I found this sight responding to your research and comments. It is always good to look at both sides of the wall.

It is very interesting the points made at this sight in response to yours: http://yhwhwatchman.blogspot.com/2005/10/watchtowers-ngo-affair-rebuttal_19.html

7:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was looking at a Watchtower website http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/pleasesignnowhere.html

It states that the UN/DPI was not under the ECOSOC resolution which said NGOs should support the UN.

One of the UN programs is the World Health Organization. Especially every year it commemorates its birthday, nationally. Look at the principles of the World Health Organization Relations with Nongovernmental Organizations: http://www.who.int/civilsociety/relations/principles/en/

Take notice of 1.2 it states: 1.2 WHO should, in relation to NGOs, act in conformity with any relevant resolutions of the General Assembly or Economic and Social Council of the United Nations.

In case you did not know World Health Organization acts in conformity with ECOSOC of the United Nations in relation to NGOs. Well now you know, straight from the government website.

While you are in the UN programme webpage don't forget to look at: 3. Criteria for the admission of NGOs into official relations with WHO.

With all this in mind I want you all to look at this annual National commemoration that took place in 2001 WHO Birthday: http://whqlibdoc.who.int/hq/2001/WHO_BCT_01.03.pdf

Can someone explain to me why Jehovah Witnesses partaking in this blasphemy event, during its National Commemoration?
Well I guess they met one of many criteria outlined in the UN/DPI associated NGO.

11:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is so sad that JW student finds out about this and other thing from opposers reather than from the WT or from the ones giving the study why? Why wait until someone else finds out about what is going and publishes it on the net before most of the JW know about it? Does any of you have an idea how the students feel when exposed to this not by a JW or WT magazines but by someone else. We sure wonder why do they hide?? Are they hidding something elese we should know??

1:00 PM  
Blogger yael said...

In regard to the Watchtower Society's association with the UN as an NGO. Thank you for explaining how the wording in the UN NGO Criteria for Association changed, to "language we cannot subscribe to". Now I would like to view the change in wording myself please. Is there someone there from the Watchtower Society who can post on this Blog the change in wording? Perhaps the Watchtower Society representative who writes "The Truth About the Truth....etc." would have this information at their fingertips. All you need to post on this site is the previously "acceptable" wording in the Criteria for Association- and then the new "language we cannot subscribe to" wording- it shouldnt be too difficult. It should be simople enough to access the Watchtower Society's records from 1991 when you applied to be an NGO with DPI, and post the 1991-1992 Criteria wording you would have there, and then post the unacceptable wording which must have been in October 2001 or thereabouts. Obviously the Watchtower Society would want to be totally transparent, and above reproach in this serious matter.

I am expecting this obviously relevant information as soon as possible please.

9:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am still not convinced that the Watchtower's association with the UN was not wrong. Also if there was nothing wrong about it why did the Society never mention to the flock that they were an NGO. Perhaps a brief statement in the Watchtower or Awake informing the readers would have sufficed. The fact is even today many Witnesses are not aware of this. Sounds quite fishy.

10:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some time ago I requested the operators of this site to publish the difference in wording
of the UN Criteria for Association, (for the Watchtower Society to be associated as an NGO with the UN DPI). Evidently it was the difference in wording which caused the Watchtower Society to realize the inappropriate connotations of their association as an NGO. Especially as the traditional view of the UN as the scarlet coloured “wild beast” was retained. See Daniel book published in 1999

Would the Watchtower Society representatives behind this “unofficial/official” site please publish the wording which the WTS Governing Body deemed suitable in 1991 while preparing to apply for UN association. Then publish the UN Criteria for Association wording suddenly found to be unacceptable by the Watchtower Society in 2001. Causing them to withdraw from UN association, thanking those who “brought it to our attention”.

I do realize that Jehovah’s Witnesses are expected to be totally unquestioning of the Governing Body in this regard. We are expected to accept that there really was a change in wording significant enough to allow Jehovah’s Witnesses to be publishers of UN material for 10 years.
Then suddenly becoming somehow “unacceptable” in October 2001. However as the UN itself has been extremely helpful, and transparent in this matter (publishing the explanation of the WTS association with DPI even now on their official web-site)- would it not be the right time for the Governing Body to itself be transparent and honest about publishing the difference in wording- it could now not accept on behalf of 6 million publishers of the “good news”.

Honesty is always the best policy, and perhaps rather than wait for 30 years to print these UN NGO details in another candid “Proclaimers “ book, along the same lines of C.T.Russell’s teachings on the Pyramids, or the house Beth Sarim house built in 1929- it may be wiser to answer “opposers” now- show the difference in wording as soon as possible!! What has the Watchtower Society got to hide?


Yael

4:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In this debate the Truth about the Truth.All parties have to be Truthful.
A question of intent or intention of either party has to be considered.
This United Nations application the Watchtower Society filled out,the first page of the UN application on your site says...."Please note that the association of your Non-Governmental Organization [NGO] with the Department of Public Information....."
We can take from this that you did not cross out the word association.So you knew upon approval of your application your intent and that of the UN/DPI's intent would be one of association together.The Watchtower Society wonted the UN Information and the United Nations wonted you to print their information.Or in other words your agreed intent was to print United Nations information for them. And the United Nations intent was to give you their information so you could print it.That would be a fair explanation of what each party agreed to wouldn't it.
When the Watchtower Society filled out the UN application. Question 15 taken from the application on your site asks for."....any UN-related newsletter,magazine....[the Watchtower Society has printed]....and to attach sample copies." These sample copies would indicate your intent in printing further UN information. Could you reproduce these sample copies here on your site so that all can see your intent given to the United Nations.As all publishers were involved in distributing the magazines from 1992 to 2001 without being informed of the UN agreement. It would be fair to say they have a right to see these samples.The Truth about the Truth requires this so that all parties are transparent to their members.It would be true to say regardless of your interpretation of any UN Information put into the WTS's publications the Truth is you agreed to print information for THE UNITED NATIONS. Since 2001 the United Nations knows what the Watchtower Society thinks of them.They have a letter on their web site now about what the Watchtower Society was required to do for them. When organizations agree to voluntarily associate there has to be an atmosphere of friendship, you are having frequent dealings with each other.Remembering the United Nations is a pure political organization you are associating with And that you agreed to print information for them. What answer can you give to James 4:4. "Adulteresses,do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God."
From the very start the United Nations application on your site shows clearly the agreement was carried out by mutual association and intent.It should also be said the UN/DPI directories listing all NGO's with the UN department of Public Information.From 1993 to 2001 [Including the Watchtower Society.]Show clearly what is expected of NGO's associating with the UN/DPI.The wording of intent is very clear.These directories can be obtained from UN depository libraries.
Will the Watchtower Society let become available the samples required with their application to associate with the UN's DPI.And the annual reports required by UN/NGO's with DPI as stated on the first page of the UN application on your site shows.It would be a fair request seeing as we all wont to get to the bottom of the Truth about the TRUTH.

8:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is all about white washing. They will never admit their wrongs. By doing so will disqualify them as discreet slaves.

1:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Watchtower Society would have examined carefully what was required of an NGO associated with DPI. Could the UN information that was examined be presented here to read and be understood from your viewpoint.

The reason for this is because of United Nations Press Releases that make your viewpoint difficult to understand.

Please refer to United Nations Press Release. Department of Public Information. News Coverage Service. New York. NGO/208 PI/755 14 February 1992.

to quote in part....."The Department of Public Information (DPI) accepted, on 28 January. 37 non-goverbmental organizations (NGOs) seeking association with it. ..................A complete list is available from DPI. ..................The Department failed to approve the applications submitted by 13 organizations, and terminated the association of 14 others that were inactive.
The NGOs officially recognized by DPI cooperate with the United Nations to help build public understanding and support for United Nations programmes and goals. Over the past five years, the number of NGOs associated with DPI has nearly doubled, to more than 1,300.
To be granted association with DPI, NGOs must have national or international standing, support the Charter of the United Nations, have a broadly based membership and possess the resources necessary for effective outreach."

United Nations Press Release NGO/292 PI/1025.
"FIFTIETH ANNUAL DPI/NGO CONFERENCE TO BE HELD AT HEADQUARTERS,10-12 SEPTEMBER. To Discuss 'Building Partnerships',Celebrating 50 Years of United Nations/NGOs Relationship
The fifieth annual NGO Conference, organized by the Department of Public Information (DPI) in cooperation with the Executive Committee of Non-Governmental Organizations associated with DPI, will be held at Headquarters from 10 to 12 September. Celebrating half a century of partnership between the United Nations and non-governmental organizations (NGOs), the theme of this year's Conference is "Building Partnerships".

United Nations Press Release SG/SM/7517 PI/1273.
'GLOBAL NETWORKS'THE MOST PROMISING PARTNERSHIP OF OUR GLOBALIZING AGE',SECRETARY-GENERAL TELLS FIFTY-THIRD ANNUAL DPI/NGO CONFERENCE.
Following is the text of Secretary-General Kofi Annan's address to the fifty-third DPI/NGO Conference,delivered this morning:
(In Part)......For more than half a century,NGOs have been allies and supporters of the United Nations.As you have developed, so has our relationship grown. Today, you are our partners in every sense of the word, and you should be welcomed and treated as such."

The use of a library card with no commitment is one thing, but this NGO/DPI association is completely different...... The United Nations information that made it acceptable for the Watchtower Society to seek association with the NGO/DPI could you print it here please.

8:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Watchtower Society submitted their application seeking association with DPI in 1991.Surely the WTS has on hand the UN information acceptable to them in 1991.In the interests of transparency
please publish here.

12:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All libraries issue members with a library card to identify you for use of books and returning books in good order.You are free to come and go as you like.

The world of an NGO with DPI is very different.An NGO has use of the normal UN library and a special UN/DPI weekly briefing with the latest UN information not yet released to the public.These NGO,s with DPI are given this early information so that they can print it helping build public understanding and support for United Nations programmes and goals.The NGO,s do this at their financial cost and in their publications.The NGO,s are required to give copies of their publications to DPI. Also complete an annual report to UN/DPI.Their is also an annual DPI conference with themes highlighting what to expect at the conference.If an NGO with DPI becomes inactive then the executive committee supervising NGO's will delete them from DPI and continued access to this special part of the UN Library.The UN web site explains the above and gives
access to archives.

The Book " NEW GENESIS" Shaping a Global Spirituality. By Robert Muller states.."All major world religions are accredited to the United Nations as non-governmental organizations."


The annual DPI conference no doubt brings together a mix of religious viewpoint.

Commiting an organization and its members to UN/DPI, is vastly different to the normal library card most people enjoy.

If an organization condemns other organizations for involvement with the UN and it is found out later they have been involved the same way also.Then it is only reasonable to expect disapproval.smpgrvyk

11:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You all are wasting your time. JW's will not believe any of this, even thou it can be found in the UN Archive. They would rather believe in a governing body who speaks as if they are God's chosen. We all know that this same governing body is taking advantage of pure hearted honest people who believes in God. But their time will come, God is merciful and also Just!!

3:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It looks like the Watchtower Society walked right on into the cage of the birdcatcher in 1991.And promtly fell asleep to the danger spiritually.Even dispensing food from the birdcatcher in their publications willingly!! It took the "opposers" to hypocrisy in 2001 to wake them up to their predicament. With no thanks for the effort,only getting beaten up metaphorically. While in the trap of the birdcatcher they associated with the spiritual drunkards as fellow associates of DPI. How will the Watchtower Society escape the judgement of Matthew 24:48-51?

5:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some time ago Yael requested this "unofficial" official WTS site to publish here openly and honestly the "DIFFERENCE IN WORDING"(as explained by the WTS letter of explanation)this wording difference which made the WTS's decade long association with the UN suddenly unacceptable- three days after the Guardian newspaper broke the news to stunned Witnesses worldwide.
This difference remains strangely- as well as significantly-invisible!
Why hasnt the Governing Body published the difference? Put it out there!
They will no doubt wait for 30 years or so and then publish another "frank" history of the WTS like the Proclaimers book, and give the UN scandal the red herring treatment given to the 1975 debacle-such as "it may have been ill-advised" etc.etc.
With 30 years or so under their belt the writers may be able to get away with it just being another "imperfection" of an "imperfect organization".....possibly.
But then as the saying goes "You can fool some of the people some of the time- but you cant fool ALL of the people ALL of the time."
How true!
Unfortunately there are many sincere, but quite inordinately, and entirely inappropriately trusting Jehovah's witnesses...who are prepared to overlook ANY indiscretion perpetrated by the WTS. Frightening indeed!
Of course these same Witnesses are not afforded the same leniency if and when they themselves commit even a minor misdemeanor! For example a sister who as a professional pianist some years ago while employed in a restuarant in Albury N.S.W Australia....was asked to play "Happy Birthday" for a customer. This sister was Publicly Reproved for this, and as a result of not being able to play this tune was forced to seek other employment.
One could fill a library with similar examples of petty arbitrary WT rules having no relation to Christianity.
The object of this comment is to underline the glaring hypocrisy in the application of even the Governing Body's own strictures. Read "Organized to do God's will" book page 155 under Disassociation... "For example, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgement by Jehovah God. (Isa.2:4 Rev. 19:17-21)refer WILD BEAST= UN. If a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God,a brief announcement is made to the congregation, stating "Name of (person)is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses". Such a person is treated in the same way as a disfellowshipped
person."
Because of this many have chosen to take the WTS at its word (as outlined by the Organization book)and treat the WTS as a Disfellowshipped Person!

6:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you all noticed that thirdwitness will no longer allow the public to post their views on the rest of his writeup(BLOG). I don't blame him, he does not want to be exposed like happened in here UN/DPI white washing.

6:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ISAIAH 30:1-3. "Woe to the stubborn sons," is the utterance of Jehovah,"[those disposed] to carry out counsel, but not that from me; and to pour out a libation, but not with my spirit, in order to add sin to sin; those who are setting out to go down to Egypt and who have not inquired of my own mouth, to take shelter in the stronghold of Phar'aoh and to take refuge in the shadow of Egypt! And the stronghold of Phar'aoh must become even for you men a reason for shame, and the refuge in the shadow of Egypt a cause for humiliation."

EXODUS 3:14. At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE."

Hebrews 11;1-2. "To have faith is to be sure of the things we hope for,to be certain of the things we cannot see. It was by their faith that people of ancient times won God,s approval."

3:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Something about faith: After Jesus resurrection he appeared in different bodies. Mary mistook him for the gardener. (Joh 20:14, 15) He again appeared, entering a room with locked doors, having a body with wound marks. (Joh 20:24-29) Several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18) Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples eyes to his identity. (Joh 21:4-7, 12)

When Jesus appeared to Mary and His Disciples, they were not able to recognize him. It was because of their lack of FAITH, it is not because he appeared in different bodies with same wounds!!

11:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To have faith,we are encouraged to turn always to Jehovah,and our Lord Jesus......not towards the United Nations.

Whatever our problems, remember Jehovah,s words to Moses.Exodus 3.. "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE." and HEBREWS 11.... "It was by their faith that people of ancient times won God,s approval."
......not towards Egypt, not towards the United Nations....This whole episode indicates something is spiritually wrong with the Watchtower Society.

12:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They should've never registered with the UN/DPI. It is their own of many stumbling blocks created by them. But like always they want to put the blame on everyone else.

3:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Decided is absolutely right! The WTS will always blame the "rank and file" for WTS mistakes, they are after all an "imperfect organization"...although how that phrase squares with being Jehovah's official "channel" is a mystery! One would expect if the Creator of the universe was "using" an "imperfect organization" as a "channel"- then surely the Creator would make sure the information was at least CORRECT, not INCORRECT- after all isnt God's Word the Bible seen as being perfectly handed down to humans? The claim is made that even differences or "imperfections" in translation are only minor differences, often regarding grammatical differences occurring through translations.
The mind-bogglingly catastrophic FALSE predictions made by the WTS- which have had such devastating effects on unsuspecting "rank and file" lives- obviously do not come from the author of the Bible.
Think of 1874, 1914, 1925- and the really big one 1975- have pumped people up with FALSE expectations- made to "look" like "food at the proper time"....only to be absolute nonsense!
My family was turned upside down by the 1975 rubbish!!! My mother actually died over it! For that the WTS WILL pay- because I do believe in Karma- or in other words as Paul said to the Galatians in ch.6:7 "We reap what we sow"

Well the poor befuddled old chaps in WTS headquarters and their keen, ambitious "young turks", including their fancy lawyers- will themselves "reap a whirlwind"!
This Society will be exposed for the sham it really is- it will be hit where it really hurts- in the WTS bank balance!
"Rank and file" will discontinue pouring "contributions" in- and poor old bachelors and spinsters who never married because -"we are living in the last days" and have real estate to leave to the Society,
- will find that the penny will suddenly drop, as to who led them "up the garden path" and they will change their Wills in favour of starving children, or endangered animals! Worthy causes in fact!!
Governments around the world will clearly see that the WTS IS a dangerous cult-like religion..and they will demand heavy retrospecive taxes- ala France- all these factors will so severely impact on this religion that the WTS WILL begin to sell off assets, and downscale printing etc. When these changes occur- they will be presented in a positive light, and only discerning persons will see through the official "spin"...but mark these words, this will happen! Downscaling will be done carefully, discreetly, and presented as if it is a positive thing.
Always remember the Yiddish proverb "The fish stinks from the head down".

2:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder if a class action suit against the watchtower is valid. I am pretty sure it can be done. They have been going after ex witnesses. Why not go after them?

4:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Decided,
You and I and many others worldwide, are on the same page! I believe there IS a class action being prepared against the WTS as we speak! You will hear more of it soon.
There are several streams in which this can be achieved. For example if you employed the services of an advisor (be it economic, spiritual, medical or otherwise)and the advice given, and paid for..(Witnesses pay dearly with time, resources, and in countless other ways to be so ill-advised by the WTS)
only to find that one has been "led up the garden path" and paid dearly for it.....then obviously there are grounds for a class action against this organization. Also as many know the WTS is reprehensible in its persecution of child sex abuse victims, and its perverse protection of the perpetrators of this abuse. As we speak savvy WTS lawyers are vigorously denying any duty of "fiduciary care" to child abuse victims. Contrast this with WTS claims that elders are providing the "hiding place from the wind" of Isaiah 32:2! What a joke!
Class actions SHOULD have proceeded against this organization after 1975!
After all where DID the idea of 1975 being a marked year come from?
Not some poor old sister in Idaho- or some dear old brother in Glasgow! No- it was dispensed in the guise of spiritual food "at the right time" by the "faithful & discreet slave" wasnt it?
I clearly remember sitting in the Melbourne assembly where the book concerned was released in 1966- sparking off a gradually increasing build up of hysteria,this hysteria caught up the most vulnerable, and inordinately trusting people-whipping them up into a state of "urgency" by manipulating feelings of guilt-for leading a "normal life".
My own parents were caught in this cruel trap- only to find that by 1977, penniless, aging, and with no hope of ever restoring what they had sacrificed- sat in an assembly and listened to a particularly nasty D/O- state "You were actually "over-zealous" and "we are not serving for a date!" This should have been the wake up call then, I recall demanding a public apology then- but as you rightly say Decided, the WTS will always blame others.
They will pay, I believe they are looking over their shoulder now as never before. Lets watch and see.
Yael.

2:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all the true heart the innocent, of those who had been victims of the watchtower always keep in mind, The LORD is a JUST and LOVING GOD.
17 “And as for you, O son of man, set your face against the daughters of your people who are acting as prophetesses out of their own heart, and prophesy against them. 18 And you must say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Woe to the women sewing bands together upon all elbows and making veils upon the head of every size in order to hunt souls! Are the souls that YOU women hunt down the ones belonging to my people, and the souls belonging to YOU the ones that YOU preserve alive? 19 And will YOU profane me toward my people for the handfuls of barley and for the morsels of bread, in order to put to death the souls that ought not to die and in order to preserve alive the souls that ought not to live by YOUR lie to my people, the hearers of a lie?”’

20 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am against the bands of YOU women, with which YOU are hunting down the souls as though they were flying things, and I will rip them from off YOUR arms and let go the souls that YOU are hunting down, souls as though they were flying things. 21 And I will rip away YOUR veils and deliver my people out of YOUR hand, and they will no more prove to be in YOUR hand something caught in the hunt; and YOU will have to know that I am Jehovah. 22 By reason of dejecting the heart of a righteous one with falsehood, when I myself had not caused him pain, and for making the hands of a wicked one strong so that he would not turn back from his bad way in order to preserve him alive, 23 therefore untruth YOU women will not keep on visioning, and divination YOU will divine no longer; and I will deliver my people out of YOUR hand, and YOU will have to know that I am Jehovah.’”

WATCHTOWER YOUR TIME WILL COME!!

8:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The authors of this site have NOT responded to the question- what was the "change of wording" which suddenly became unacceptable to the Watchtower Society, and motivated their rather abrupt departure as a UN DPI. Is it too difficult for the Watchtower Society to publish herein (or even to publish in the publications) the clear DIFFERENCE IN WORDING to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that there really was a change in wording. The Society's silence on this is becoming very difficult for witnesses to overlook and defend.

We have always been truthful with you, and angry because we have been told by the elders "there is no answer" to this!
What is going on brothers?
Rebecca S.

7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rebecca, Look at this:
"Due to the rules of the United Nations charter, non-governmental organizations (NGOs), such as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, cannot become members of the United Nations." The above statement will indicate that other NGOs direct association with the UN is possible, it makes this statement erroneous. If we look at this faxed photo copy: http://www.unwatchtower.com/resources/unngo.jpg This is only one example of active NGOs support for the UN. On 28 January 37 non-govermental organizations (NGOs) seeking association with the Department of Public Information. 13 Out of the 37 applicants failed approval. Association of 14 active members was also terminated because they were inactive(Basically not actively participating). The NGOs officially recognized by DPI cooperate with the UNITED NATIONS TO HELP BUILD PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING AND SUPPORT FOR UNITED NATIONS PROGRAMMES AND GOALS.
Rebecca, did you also know that one of the UN Programme is the World Health Organization? I have seen many times all throughtout the watchtowers literature how they provided support for this program and also for the UN.

9:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are there any Elders,.. Brothers who know the United Nations wording..... That was acceptable to the Watchtower Society, in order for them to seek association or register with the United Nations Department of Public Information.

The Watchtower Letter on this site is quoted by the Elders. But so far no one knows the United Nations wording that made it acceptable for the Watchtower Society to register.
Why is this?

The United Nations have produced and quoted their information in a letter. To Whom It May Concern.

The Watchtower letter shows no United Nations information.Please produce the UN information in print so we can give an informed answer.Could an Elder find out and answer this please.

5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brothers at the branch office have read the Watchtower Letter out also over the phone.
But when asked for the United Nations information that made it acceptable to register, or associate with the UN department of Public Information,or to print information for the United Nations. They didn't have any information either.Why is this? ...... Can an Elder follow this up and get the UN information from the Society. If publishers can't get it perhaps an Elder can.
It looks bad if we can't show clearly this information.It looks like we just walked in and registered to associate with the Devil,s organization.Now that just could not happen surely.

6:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I never met a JW's that knew about this relationship DURING the 10yrs. Everyone came to know after the facts has been revealed.

3:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Decided, thank you for reminding me of the constant references to the WHO in the WT & Awake etc. I have heard people question why the articles had to have so much content about the UN.
I myself did wonder why there were so many articles about such NON-spiritual things, like for example,growing peanuts, how to make tofu, or the mating dance of the lyre bird!
As a young person I felt strange offering these articles, it always seemed quite weird when we were supposed to be preaching God,s Kingdom. It always looked to me like it wasnt enough to preach the Gospel. Now of course we know that WTS was busy playing games with the UN, and as you have stated so succintly in your postings.
As you say no-one else knew for 10 years. If it wasnt for the Internet they would still be busy at it!

The Internet is similar to Gutenberg's press! The printing process exposed the Church, as well as expanded the ordinary persons knowlege on a variety of subjects.

The question is, will the WTS survive the Internet?
Possibly, but they will be diminished by the exposure of all their "skeletons in the closet"

It isnt only the UN debacle- there are many other disgusting scandals, ala child sex abuse cover-ups!

What they need is another Government like the France to hit them in the hip-pocket!!

5:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you -decided.
You do really analize and hit the nail on the head.
We have been fools to believe in this organization.

When people cannot own up to their wrongdoing- but just continue to bluff their way out- as well as bully anyone who dares "question" their UN affair....then it is patently obvious where they originate from
John 8:44

Thank you, Rebecca

5:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have seen many times how the wording of the application was taken out of context, I ADVICE EVERY SINGLE ELDER TO BE VERY CAREFUL on how you are trying to explain this relationship with the UN/DPI, it will discredit you and anyone who tries to take official quotes out of context. SO I ADVICE YOU ALL TO READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY!! We need to keep the wording within the full context of the application. The quote taken out of the application states: “Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.”
However lets keep it within the context of the application, it is a TRUE FACT that NGOs direct association with the UN system is non-existence, THERE IS NO SUCH RELATIONSHIP, this statement is made very clear in the application and it should not be taken out of context. To state out of context would be a complete contradiction to Criteria for association with DPI. We need to understand this is an indirect association with the UN, and it is through the DPI and no ONE NGOs will get special treatment above the other NGOs just the chance to spread the word and meet various criteria as stated in the UN/DPI website: http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/about-ngo-assoc.asp
Again I will back my statement: If we look at this faxed photo copy: http://www.unwatchtower.com/resources/unngo.jpg This is only one example of active NGOs support for the UN. On 28 January 37 non-govermental organizations (NGOs) seeking association with the Department of Public Information. 13 Out of the 37 applicants failed approval. Association of 14 active members was also terminated because they were inactive(Basically not actively participating). The NGOs officially recognized by DPI cooperate with the UNITED NATIONS TO HELP BUILD PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING AND SUPPORT FOR UNITED NATIONS PROGRAMMES AND GOALS.
One of the UN Programme is the World Health Organization. Providing support for this program is meeting the criteria set forth by the UN/DPI. Many other programmes also supports the UN. For instance look at this: http://whqlibdoc.who.int/hq/2001/WHO_BCT_01.03.pdf do a search of JW's. You will find the presence of JW's in this WORLD EVENT.
I hate to say this but this next website is not a very reliable source, it is very biased: http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/pleasesignnowhere.html It states that the UN/DPI was not under the ECOSOC resolution which said NGOs should support the UN. It is taken out of context, IT IS THE PROGRAMMES such as WHO that will act in conformity WITH ECOSOC in regards to relations with NGOs, again it is not to be taken out of context, IT IS NOT THE NGOs, IT IS THE UN PROGRAMME. I will prove my point lets look at the WHO criteria in regards to NGOs: http://www.who.int/civilsociety/relations/principles/en/ Take notice of 1.2 it states: 1.2 WHO should, in relation to NGOs, act in conformity with any relevant resolutions of the General Assembly or Economic and Social Council of the United Nations (ECOSOC). I advice you to read the whole page.
If something is going to be written it should not be biased.
AGAIN TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT: IT IS THE PROGRAMMES such as WHO that will act in conformity WITH ECOSOC in regards to relations with NGOs, IT IS NOT THE NGOs, IT IS THE UN PROGRAMME.

8:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is a question for "Jason loyal"
I have been reading the earlier blogs on this site.
What is the difference in wording in "THE CRITERIA FOR ASSOCIATION" for NGO's with DPI UN??????

The obvious fact that no-one can produce it proves their connection to Matthew 23
Totally hypocritical- devious, dishonest bullies! Thugs who bully anyone rightly questioning this spiritual prostitution!

You can fool some of the people some of the time- BUT YOU CANNOT FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME!
A lover of truth and a hater of lies, and liars.

1:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CORRECTION to my last statement: So there will be no comfusion.
Part of the application process with the UN/DPI is to understand the criterias and to take notice that this such process does not incorporate the NGO into the UN system (UN SYSTEM is made up of different systematic bodies not NGOs) . Again not to be taken out of context, if taken out of context will contradict the criterias for an NGO to support the UN. An NGO who is not actively involved will have their membership TERMINATED.
Another correction to make my point clear: http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/pleasesignnowhere.html It states that the UN/DPI was not under the ECOSOC resolution which said NGOs should support the UN. IT IS A BACKWARD STATEMENT, IT IS THE PROGRAMMES such as WHO that will act in conformity WITH ECOSOC in regards to relations with NGOs.
Hopefully this clear any miscommunication!!

5:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A Publisher or Elder who prints political information for the Republican Party in the up coming USA elections, at his cost, in his magazine would certainly be viewed as crossing the line of neutrality.

When questioned he explained he had been doing so for ten years, and some years before that.Letting his readers know what programmes the Republicans have in place and what they plan for the future.

Elders how would you help this person? How would you reprove him?
If he was in your congregation would you be happy doing nothing?
When the Circuit Oversea comes he would like to know why you have been sitting on your hands doing nothing.

If you replied to him we have no answer to this.Would he also agree and say I also have no answer.

All the training given in the Elders schools gives you an answer.
Crossing the line of neutrality put you on the other side.

10:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone should take a look at this: http://www.reexamine.org/wtobserver/apps/pbcs.dll/article93c1.html?AID=/20040316/NEWS/110160001
I really feel sorry for all the honest Witness who has fallen into a trance for the watch tower. I also feel sorry for my wife who blindly believes in the watchtower!!

7:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Watchtower And ANCA
The Watchtower is listed with the Armenian National Committee of America, which is:

The Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) is the largest and most influential Armenian American grassroots political organization. Working in coordination with a network of offices, chapters and supporters throughout the United States and affiliated organizations around the world, the ANCA actively advances the concerns of the Armenian American community on a broad range of issues.

James Pellechia of Watchtower Public Affairs Dept. listed as a supporter and donor to the SPJ (Society of Professional Journalists) President's Club:

2001 SPJ President’s Club Members
The generosity of the following members enables SPJ to provide its services to members nationwide. These members made donations to SPJ during 2001.

Dan Ailloni-Charas
Rhoda Amon
Martin Anderson
George Arnold
Betsy Ashton
Danforth Austin
Guy Baehr
Mark Balthazar
Thomas Barber
Wilson Barto
Gary Barton
Maurine Beasley
Alan Berckmann
Jeffrey Bitzer
Alexander Bodi
Jim Bohannon
Malcolm Borg
John Borger
Fred Brown
Betsey Bruce
John Bryan
Max Burns
Eugene Burns
Robert Byrnes
John Camden
Oren Campbell
Carolyn Carlson
Warren Carmichael
Adrienne Chalets
Harold Cubin
Stephan Cohen
Roger Cole
John Corpora
Gardner Cowles
Rolla Crick
Patricia Cross
Philip Currie
Emil Danker
Paul Davis
Patrick Daddy
Larry Derailing
Duchesne Drew
Betty Dukert
Trigie Ealey
Leonard Eiserer
Renita Engleton
Edward English
Donald Ferguson
Justin Fishbein
William Fisher
Mary Folk
Lawrence Foster
Joseph Galloway
Steve Geimann
Marcus George
Frank Gibson
Tom Giuffrida
Alf Goodykoontz
Forrest Gossett
Howard Graves
George Habel
Jane Hadley
Gina Hammesfahr
Max Heath
John Heffernan
William Hewitt
Gary Hill
Charles Hillinger
William Huffman
William Jeske
Fran Johnson
Donald Johnson
John Johnson
Susan Katcef
Clyde King
Arthur Klein
Joshua Klein
Joseph Kollin
Daniel Kops
Steve Kreizel
Jack Lail
Robert Leger
Jay Levy
Robert Lewis
Randall Lyman
Alex Machaskee
Eric Mandel
Frank Martin
Tony Mauro
Del McColm
Robert McCord
Patrick McKeand
Jerry McKinney
Paul McMasters
Shelley McMurdie
Thomas Miller
Wilson Minor
Carl Moreland
Carol Mouche
James Ogle
Jean Otto
Richard Papiernik
Kristen Parke
Dennis Parkinson Jan Paschal
James Pellechia
Dorothy Pirovano
Mary Pitzl
William Plante
Sue Porter
Philip Potempa
Giovanni Prosina
Russell Pulliam
Robert Rawitch
Bernard Redmont
Ronald Rhodes
Ronald Ribble
Melvin Rinehart
Michael Risida
Robert Rivard
Irving Roth
Frank Rubin
Ruth Sadler
Broc Sanford
Thomas Scheffey
Bob Schulman
Robert Schwaneberg
Michael Serino
David Shapiro
Samuel Sharkey
Eula Shorey
Cindy Simoneau
Carole Simpson
Ellen Smith
Paul Steinle
Phyllis Stevenson
Jerald Ter Horst
Marty Tharp
Charles Thomas
John Thompson
Lynette Tom
Joseph Tyrrell
Tommy Valuckas
Kenneth Venit
Georgiana Vines
James Warner
Shirley Wentworth
Kit Werbe
Vicky Whitaker
Robert Whittington
Howard Williams
Robert Wills
John Yarmuth
Anson Yeager
David Zweifel



These individuals made donations to the SPJ President’s Club between Jan. 1, 2001, and Dec. 31, 2001. James Pellechia, from the Watchtower writing department, made a donation, therefore became involved with political activity. Another shining case of Watchtower hypocrisy.

8:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Watchtower Involved With VIF
The Watch Tower Society is also listed as an NGO with the Vilnius International Forum on Holocaust Era Looted Cultural Assets, another indication of cooperation with the international community!

(from http://www.vilniusforum.lt/participants/international.htm)

excerpt from the above page:

INTERNATIONAL NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS
….
Mr. Meir Meyer - Israel Representative
Watch Tower Society

Mr. James N. Pellechia - Associate Editor, Watch Tower Publications and Director of Public Affairs Office
Reino Kesk
Virgilios Pudjeivis



also from http://www.vilniusforum.lt/objectives/index.htm:

The objectives of the Vilnius Committee is as follows (abbreviated):

· to present information on specific accomplishments in identification of looted cultural artifacts of Holocaust victims and on the current status of efforts to implement their return to rightful owners. States and participants may also discuss continuing problems they face and possible solutions;
….
· to discuss needs for politicians, lawyers, historians, and museum curators in various countries to disseminate information on the collection of the cultural assets of Holocaust victims in order to
facilitate their return to the general cultural context of their provenance and
to evaluate the activities of member states of the Council of Europe as well as of collectors, auctioneers, and museums in the fulfillment of recommendations and resolutions adopted by the Council….

James Pellechia of the Watchtower Public Affairs Program was a speaker at the Vilnius Forum Program on October 5, 2000 (between 9:30 and 11:30 AM) here and you can listen to his speech here.

Can anyone tell me how bad can this get for the watchtower?

8:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for all your research Decided.
It is quite pathetically obvious that Jehovah's witnesses will continue to turn moral and intellectual somersaults in an effort to convince themselves that there was nothing wrong with becoming associated with the UN!

There are no limits to how far the brothers and sisters will excuse WHATEVER the WTS does!

Strangely though when Witnesses first heard about the UN NGO debacle- they didnt believe it-thought it was a set-up- it
couldnt be true!

Well of course it didnt SOUND right< thats because it WASNT right!

This was the sort of hypocritical behaviour the Catholic Church did- not the pure, clean true channell!!

It didnt take long though to twist
things around- "Pronounce bad-good" to convince MOST of them that of course it was alright to be an NGO for 10 years without telling anyone!!!

Why not!! Isnt this what other dictators have done to influence followers to ignore the urgings of conscience?
Rebecca

5:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been reading this blog for some time- but it seems like all the same visitors to it.

Does anyone else read this blog?

Or does the desperate Watchtower spin of roughly 60 pages put thinking people off?

Is there anyone out there?

2:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Much is said about the Watchtower Society not signing to register to associate with the DPI as an NGO.
Yet other religious NGO's register to associate the same way.This is no excuse.

What one did is important.Agreeing to print information for the United Nations which is what NGO's with DPI is all about.Ten years of association is on public record.

How can the Watchtower Society extract the straw in your brothers eye,when you have this great rafter in your own eye ? It is not difficult to see something is spiritually wrong with this Society.

11:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Watchtower Society would win Gold Logies for "Hypocrisy Awards" if they were being presented!!!

How can ordinary Witnesses possibly justify the blindingly obvious hypocrisy of the last Tract about the "end of false religion near?"

Not only having a two way affair with the UN- dirty enough!! But using monetary donations for their legal teams to prevent children sexually abused by Witnesses to receive compensation due to them!

Watchtower lawyers earnestly arguing that "elders" have "no fiduciary duty of care" to the flock.
This is of course starkly different to the explanation of Isaiah 32: 1,2 to mean the kind, Christian loving,compassionate, and most responsible care given to the "little sheep" by "spirit appointed elders".

What a joke- one of course can understandably then ask "What kind of spirit, would appoint persons who protect paedophiles, by not outing them, and conversely persecute the victims, by shutting them up- and pursuing them in the courts?"

I can only think of one Spirit like that- the same one Jesus referred to when speaking against liars in John 8:44
Totally decided.

6:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Watchtower Society dedicated their magazines to the preaching of God's Kingdom.Donations were given by people to them for this.

Now it has become known they also have used these magazines to promote the interests of the United Nations as an NGO with DPI.For ten long years.UN is viewed by W/T to be God's enemy.Yet they were happy to associate with them and print information for them.

These magazines are supposed to contain spiritual food at the right time.How can you serve two masters and expect to be approved?

People are giving their funds to families now,starving children,and remembering the good samaritan, not to a hypocritical organization. How many families still eat one meal a day in africa.Are you a one meal a day or three meals a day?????? Food for thought as many cross the road and walk by the one meal a day people of africa...........as we use money God has helped us all obtain to help our neighbor not only in word but in deed also.................. Organizations that give no example in this area are not following the words and example of Jesus.

3:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The wording remained unchanged for three decades hmmmmm. It only shows how misguided thirdwitness is and how hard he is trying to sell his view:

http://www.randytv.com/secret/NGOrequirements.htm

5:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another Fiasco:

Reply »
|Flag |#27 50 min ago
I asked a Jehovah Witness if the watchtower allowed to get involved with any political organization? HE sure stuck a big shoe in his mouth, here are the links:
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&ca...
Daniel’s contradiction: I asked Do Jehovah Witnesses partake on any political organization? answered NO!! QUESTION: Are you familiar with this political organization:The Armenian National Committee of America is the largest, most influential Armenian American grassroots political organization? ANSWER:Yes I am,but not at liberty to discuss the pending registration application. Refused to answer my followup. How much does he really know, why is he not at liberty to discuss the pending registration application. I gave him a CHANCE to clear this up for me. But avoided the questions. Readers pay close attention look at the website http://www.anca.org/legislative_center/key_le... what do you see? YES, the deep involvement of this political system,in the HOUSE and SENATE. http://www.anca.org/action_alerts/actionalert... In this link you will find listed as one of the Organizations to Contact Jehovah's Witnesses, Public Affairs Office,Watch Tower House, The Ridgeway London NW7 1RN Tel:020 8906 2211Fax: 020 8371 0051E-mail: pr@wtbts.org.uk www.disc.co.uk/standfirm/ Why don’t you tell the public about the pending application? I will say it, They are trying to collect compensations from those who suffered in concentration camps during the holocaust. YES, from the dead. They should consider the living, the family of those victimized should be compensated, NOT the watchtower. They say is to distribute to the witnesses in need, I wonder if it was their ancesters who suffered in this horrible camps, I doubt it. WHO criteria: http://www.who.int/civilsociety/relations/pri... Take notice of 1.2 it states:1.2 WHO should, in relation to NGOs, act in conformity with any relevant resolutions of the General Assembly or Economic and Social Council of the United Nations ECOSOC http://whqlibdoc.who.int/hq/2001/WHO_BCT_01.0... do a search of JW's.You will find the presence of JW's in this WORLD EVENT. Enough said.Daniel if you believe in your truth, then let your truth be tested!!

6:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here are the links my conversation with a Jehovah Witness

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633704

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633739

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633716

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633032

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633630

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633702

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633715
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=1617&qID=4633736

http://www.anca.org/legislative_center/key_legislation.php
what do you see? YES, the deep involvement of this political system,in the HOUSE and SENATE. http://www.anca.org/action_alerts/actionalerts.php?aaid=16
In this link you will find listed as one of the Organizations to Contact Jehovah's Witnesses,Public Affairs Office,Watch Tower House,The Ridgeway London NW7 1RN Tel:020 8906 2211Fax: 020 8371 0051E-mail: pr@wtbts.org.uk www.disc.co.uk/standfirm/

6:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone, looking for Third-Witness?

His essay has come under attack here is this other forum, he is losing the debate:


http://www.topix.com/forum/who/jehovahs-witnesses/T9E94JHNQ0D8DS6CT/p13#lastPost

6:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the Revelation written by Apostle John. It says the image of the beast would be given a voice.
NGO,s with the Department of Information have given the UN a voice .Including the Watchtower Society.

7:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a funny thing to be talking about. If you people were true witnesses of Jehovah, you would be out there learning about him and not trying to figure this ordeal out. Whether it was intentional (which I don't believe) or a mistake, the Society isn't associated with the UN anymore. Forgive and forget because all the Watchtower is trying to do is guide us and help us understand the truth better.

11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

UNDER THE HEADING WHO REALLY IS THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?

YOUR POINT OF BEATING ONE'S BROTHER PROVES ONE NOT TO BE OF THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE....

HOW DO YOU ANSWER THE BEATING UP OF OLIN MYOLE AND THE COURT CASE THAT FOLLOWED.THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE A SHAME FILE NOT TO BE MENTIONED IN THE PROCLAIMERS BOOK.

THE COURT RECORDS INDICATE OLIN MOYLE COULD ONLY CLEAR HIS NAME BY GOING TO COURT.

10:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Olin Moyle case needs to be given the light of day. As it casts light on what the Directors of the Watchtower Society can do to their own members. Both Olin Moyle and his Wife.

5:52 PM  
Anonymous Marc H said...

@Anonymous:

The Olin Moyle case, thats interesting that you point that out. I'm having a damn hard time trying to find the original open letter that Moyle wrote to the Watchtower. There's only one book that makes mention of the Moyle's open letter, but doesn't reprint it and reference it and the docbob.org website seems to just be a retype, with spelling errors.

The book i'm referring to is "A people for his name : a History of the WB&TS"

Isn't a peer reviewed book and has too many assertions about the issue instead of just presenting evidence.

Example: "The reader may come to his own conclusions about this case from these quotations from official publications from the Society." Page 204

but further down the page states:
"The narrow-mindedness of the Witnesses is apparent..."

Also on page 204 "Jehovah's Witnesses do not know what the word 'inquisition' means, although they seem to know it is bad."

No statistical evidence what so ever or even interviews done to back these statements up. I can't see how this writer is comparing the Inquisition which KILLED and BURNED people, to what the WT&BS had done in this case. Which is remove people who don't agree with their agenda and move on with their original purpose. I wish they did that during the inquisition during the dark ages. You know how many people would have LIVED instead of being tortured to death?

The interesting thing I'm finding out about many of the Ex-Witnesses or people who never joined the religion, who publish books or websites about those that still follow this religion is that they seem to have a very clear and negative agenda, its not objective. Its a shame that they mar their cause of exposition is so badly by their view.

The Moyle case I found very interesting to read, but it seemed like it was a personal spat over certain issues that just boiled over. Oh and the one guy just happened to be a lawyer. This has happened time after time after time within the business world and other secular environments.

If this case was so damning to the Witness movement why was the judgment against them published in their own magazine? They didnt even hide the fact that the decision was unanimous and they couldnt reargue the case.

I was puzzled reading that book, because why did the author reprint almost the ENTIRE court case, but didn't publish the letter that started it all? Why wasn't the thing that originally sparked this court battle not photocopied? Scanned or printed?

10:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding the Olin Moyle matter.The Watchtower Society appears to have handled it badly.
From President Rutherford reaction to Moyle's letter. It is doubtful Moyle would have gone to court if Rutherford had been reasonable.
However as Olin Moyle said his letter to Rutherford speaks for itself. The two men could have had a long private straight talk together, Rutherford could have appreciated getting Moyle's viewpoint and the matter settled privately.As it stands....now.

The court records are there for everyone to read. They speak for themselves. Man is made in God's image, one outstanding quality of our Father is Justice. Parents see this quality shine in their children as they grow and develop. This same quality also shines in adults. When it is outraged children will tell you so, also adults. It is wise to listen. When a court hands down a decision, and is upheld on appeals. The matter has been heard and decided.

President Rutherford went over the top in his reaction to Olin Moyle and his wife. Now the whole story is a matter of public record.

When people are treated badly they will have a story to tell similar to Olin Moyle. And tell it they will. Justice demands nothing less.

10:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re Olin Moyle.
It came down to who was telling the Truth. Olin Moyle or the Directors of the Watchtower Society.The court found Olin Moyle
was telling the Truth and upheld it on appeals.

7:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Point of order: All of us, including the WTB&TS live under the dominion of the UN, and (for those of us in the US) the USA. We pay taxes to them which support wars. We must obtain licenses and passports from them to travel. We must obey their laws. We use their court systems. We have no choice. We can no more separate ourselves from them than a flea on a dog's back could. The flea needs the dog for food and a home. The flea does not need to approve of the dog's actions, nor is the flea duplicitous with the dog. Personally, I find this entire UN association debacle one of the lesser issues. I am shocked that anyone would leave off worshiping the Most High God over something so small as this. I have seen arguments of the issue (for and against) - and the for side is quite clearly the winner. Regardless! As I have tried to be clear on - we are all forced to live under their control whether we want to or not. The difference IS - that the WTB&TS does not attempt to ride the UN, like Babylon the Great CLEARLY does. No other facts or debates are needed beyond these.

MagnifyJehovah.com/

2:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is most difficult to comprehend anyone likening the WTBTS to a Flea that just had to hop onto the Dog as the comment above refers to be the UN. To associate with all the other Babylon the Great Feas on the same Dog. Not really good associates, would you agree?

What makes this whole UN/DPI so wrong is no one forced the WTBTS to hop on this dog as you say but that their application to get on the dog and associate with all the other member Babylon the Great fleas was VOLUNTARY.

They could have let this dog walk by and have nothing to do with UN/DPI. What you are saying is they had no choice!

The fact is they did have a choice and they made that choice themselves.

And it is not a choice that the Master of the Congregation would agree with. Please read the book of Revelation.

11:50 PM  
Blogger Jehovah's Servant said...

My dear anonymous friend, I have read the entire Bible more than once. Revelation happens to be my favorite book. I appreciate your directive to "read the book of Revelation" but I can assure you I have on several occasions already done so.

You don't seem to understand the meaning of my illustration. If you live in the United States, or any other nation represented by the UN, you are a part of the UN whether you like it or not. And a minor UN NGO DPI membership for research purposes does not exactly make the WTB&TS duplicitous with false religion anymore than the fact that probably 90% of all of Jehovah's Witnesses were once practicing members of said false religions! But, you can be assured that the WTB&TS has NEVER engaged in voting or influencing the actions of the UN or any other political body, as false religion has. To state that the WTB&TS "associates with all the other Babylon the Great Feas [sic]" is a misrepresentation of the truth, and a twisting of the facts.

And that my dear anonymous friend you can choose to understand, or you continue to try to make a mountain out of a molehill. Rest assured, your cries of foul will not bring about the destruction of Jehovah God's organization on this earth or any other.

Regardless, I for one will continue to serve my God Jehovah, no matter the perceived mistakes of my fellow brothers. I have no other choice. Unlike many apostates and opposers, I do not allow the imperfect actions of my Christian brothers and sisters to sway my relationship with Jehovah God, and I know that without the faithful and discreet slave, I would never have even learned about him in the first place.

2:19 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

The WT is wrong in this regard and stumbled many (whos blood is on their heads)'Jesus said if you stumble any of those my brothers you might as well place a stone around your neck & throw yourself in the river. Well done WT for avoiding the 'truth'about what you have done. Rather then being humble and admitting an error in judgement all you have done is try to justify your false hood and label others as apostates when those intelligent people can see what you have done. Who is the apostate in this matter?

1:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

really truth is not possible to find because this brother who received application he also receive broschure about all requirements of NGO to UNO,psychology of WTBS is good trained by daily writing department and bunch smart guys,revealing aplication signature without of separate broschure made WTBS holy and clean and not hipocritial WTBS,only these guys and JEHOVA knows if GB is holy in His eyes,very near future Judgement day events will clearly show us who is above GODS LAW BIBLE! or WTBS claiming as god of whole new mankind and paradise, left is not much time 5/21/2011

1:46 PM  
Anonymous Max Power said...

I am a little disappointed.

Compuserve? Really!?

lol

6:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I appreciate your research on the NGO status and that it was only to be able to access the library facilities as the WTBS says. You have clarified many points. Thanks.

I was disfellowshipped for 9 years. I checked out the facts and did my homework. What did I find? The Witnesses are teaching the real truth of the Bible.

I came back to Jehovah's Organization. That was 20 years ago. I will remain a witness until I die.

As for the apostates? Jehovah knows their true heart condition. He will judge them, not us.

May Jehovah God continue to bless your efforts to help others to understand the truth.

Thanks,
Your brother
JP

9:48 PM  
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5:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous JP,

"You did your Homework" so could you please explain to me why the JW tell that the Jews were in exile from Jerusalem during 70 years while that is NOT the Bible says. Please read Jeremiah 25:11,12 and 29:10 (in a reliable version of the Bible).

I'm ready to leave JW's mostly because of that lie so your answer would be apreciated (I sent a 8 pages letter to the Bethel... No answer).

Thanks for your Answer

TD

2:11 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I. Don't care what your reason is for joining you joined. You tell us we are not to have any part with Babylon the Great,but yet you joined. You have some who pull the cover off of you to expose you and some who pull the covers back over you to protect you . The fact still remains,YOU JOINED.You need to practice what you preach. You put yourself up there as leaders and you mislead.( Hypocrites). I'm very angry all these years of listing to you and turn traitors to us and your so called Jehovah,im very angry. You make us do things you would not touch with your little finger. It's that DISGUSTING THING that you drummed into our heads . You shouldn't have had anything to do with it!!! PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!!! You have made all of us who follow you liable to the Almighty God in the worst way. And yet all you do is try to cover it up and make excuses as to why. There is no why,you shouldn't have joined for any reason. Your information was supposedly to come form God and the Bible not information from the United Nations......YOU JOINED!!!

7:05 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I. Don't care what your reason is for joining you joined. You tell us we are not to have any part with Babylon the Great,but yet you joined. You have some who pull the cover off of you to expose you and some who pull the covers back over you to protect you . The fact still remains,YOU JOINED.You need to practice what you preach. You put yourself up there as leaders and you mislead.( Hypocrites). I'm very angry all these years of listing to you and turn traitors to us and your so called Jehovah,im very angry. You make us do things you would not touch with your little finger. It's that DISGUSTING THING that you drummed into our heads . You shouldn't have had anything to do with it!!! PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!!! You have made all of us who follow you liable to the Almighty God in the worst way. And yet all you do is try to cover it up and make excuses as to why. There is no why,you shouldn't have joined for any reason. Your information was supposedly to come form God and the Bible not information from the United Nations......YOU JOINED!!!

7:13 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I. Don't care what your reason is for joining you joined. You tell us we are not to have any part with Babylon the Great,but yet you joined. You have some who pull the cover off of you to expose you and some who pull the covers back over you to protect you . The fact still remains,YOU JOINED.You need to practice what you preach. You put yourself up there as leaders and you mislead.( Hypocrites). I'm very angry all these years of listing to you and turn traitors to us and your so called Jehovah,im very angry. You make us do things you would not touch with your little finger. It's that DISGUSTING THING that you drummed into our heads . You shouldn't have had anything to do with it!!! PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!!! You have made all of us who follow you liable to the Almighty God in the worst way. And yet all you do is try to cover it up and make excuses as to why. There is no why,you shouldn't have joined for any reason. Your information was supposedly to come form God and the Bible not information from the United Nations......YOU JOINED!!!

7:14 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I. Don't care what your reason is for joining you joined. You tell us we are not to have any part with Babylon the Great,but yet you joined. You have some who pull the cover off of you to expose you and some who pull the covers back over you to protect you . The fact still remains,YOU JOINED.You need to practice what you preach. You put yourself up there as leaders and you mislead.( Hypocrites). I'm very angry all these years of listing to you and turn traitors to us and your so called Jehovah,im very angry. You make us do things you would not touch with your little finger. It's that DISGUSTING THING that you drummed into our heads . You shouldn't have had anything to do with it!!! PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH!!! You have made all of us who follow you liable to the Almighty God in the worst way. And yet all you do is try to cover it up and make excuses as to why. There is no why,you shouldn't have joined for any reason. Your information was supposedly to come form God and the Bible not information from the United Nations......YOU JOINED!!!

7:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just checked the king James version And it says 70 years aswell??? 🤔

2:14 PM  

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