Timothy Kline Exposed--Vomit, Lies, and Double Speak


Timothy Kline, humble servant of Jehovah whose only wish is that slaves of the Watchtower Society could be freed. Honest and straightforward, his only concern is to save you from Watchtower theology. His intelligence far surpasses that of all of the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses for whereas we needed help and guidance to find Bible truths, like the Ethiopian Eunuch, he needed no such help. Notice his own statements about this:

For one, the Watchtower Society taught me nothing that I didn't already know about the Bible long before I had ever even knew that the Watchtower existed. What drew me to Watchtower theology was that many of its basic teachings matched what I had already come to understand. To say that the Watchtower Society taught me "the truth" is false, and just goes to demonstrate how much thirdwitness tries to bring glory to mere men when it is Jehovah that reveals truth.

This statement alone belies his humility. He deems himself so knowledgable and so wise that no one needs to help him understand scriptures. His Bible understanding far exceeds that of any others. Lets examine some of his insights that he has brought forth thru no help from others and whether this savior of 'Watchtower slaves' is really as sincere and honest as he would have us believe. Kline's words will appear in italics.


The Lies

Mr. Kline once made this statment concerning the book, The Report by TWMC: "Of course, there's plenty more to be discussed when it comes to the true identity of this "ThirdWitness," staunch defender of The Report."

I challenged him to provide any evidence that I was a defender of The Report. He never even attempted to bring forth one bit of evidence for making this statement because he knew when he made the statement it was an outright lie. He was purposely deceiving others merely trying to take the heat off Robert King for plagiarizing The Report.

Mr. Kline further said concerning the book, "Coaxed by what "ThirdWitness" describes as "Holy Spirit," he purchased the book and then miraculously was led to certain passages much like a certain Joseph Smith was led by angelic guidance to writings that led Joseph Smith to truth."

I pointed out that I never made the claim that holy spirit directed me to find this book quoting exactly what I said. Here it is:
"watcher - Unless holy spirit gave him the information? I guess we will all have to decide that for ourselves and time will tell. I am reminded of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormons. He was given golden tablets written in Egyptian. He translated it into English. Amazingly, some passages he translated were exactly word for word with the King James Version, even including spurious scriptures which were later found not to be in the original text. And even though he spoke modern English, he translated into the same archaic English of the King James Bible. How did he do this? Did he have Holy Spirit in translating the passages and that is why they are the same as the KJV[?]? That is what a Mormon will tell you. I can make the same claim. I was not even looking for THE REPORT. I was just looking thru ebay at books on ebay published by the WTBTS[?] and lo and behold, I saw THE REPORT. I noticed the similarites in the book and in watchmans essays so I bought it. Did I know just how similar it was going to be? NO! Was I directed by Holy Spirit to buy it and then directed to notice the similar passages so that watchman could be exposed? So do you believe watchman has holy spirit but I don't? Or do you believe I have holy spirit and watchman don't? I much prefer to just look at the facts rather than try to guess? (Just for the record I do not make such a claim at all. I think it was merely a coincidence.) " End of quote. Posted atformatTime('1127230843');10:40 - 20/09/2005

When someone else also pointed out to Kline this: If you had bothered reading a couple of lines further you would have seen 3W's disclaimer that he believes Holy Spirit had nothing to do with finding "The Report".

Kline replied: An obvious insertion on his part, added later to cover himself.

Fortunately I had saved the entire thread in which I had made the quote above. When I posted the entire thread and proved that I did not edit my statement and change it did Kline apologize? Admit he was wrong? No instead his anger, pride, and true colors came forth as he went on the offensive ranting among other things:
you are a hypocrite...I am SO glad that I'm not like you...Be satisfied in your self-righteousness. You truly are having your reward. In the end, the anonymity which affords you free reign in pedanticism will be stripped away by Jehovah, so go for it.

But his lying goes much deeper than untruths toward individuals. As is so often the case with apostates, Kline wants to misrepresent what WT publications and JWs really teach. For example Kline says:

There have been countless times when Watchtower members have heard the Watchtower Society derail, castigate, and denounce Roman Catholicism as about the furthest thing from true Christianity as one can get.
But the irony rests in the fact that the Watchtower Society has so plainly modeled itself after the Roman Catholic Church.
One of the ways that the Watchtower Society has done this is through the doctrine of infallibility.

Any JW reading this knows that we do not teach the doctrine of infallibility. Over the years the WT publications have made this plain. Here are a few:

It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. (Revelation Climax--p. 9)

Those who make up the one true Christian organization today do not have angelic revelations or divine inspiration. (Kingdom Proclaimers--p.708)

Although the slave class is defined as "faithful and discreet," Jesus did not say that it would be infallible. This group of faithful anointed brothers still consists of imperfect Christians. Even with the best of intentions, they can be mistaken, as such men sometimes were in the first century. (WT December 1, 2002--p. 17)

Even more misleading is this outrageous claim by Kline against God's people: If we are going to argue that one must follow God's arrangement, then we here must acknowledge the arrangement that our Grand Creator has put into place: Our King is Jesus until such time as his kingdom reaches its fulfilled purpose. If we want for anything, we are to go through him in asking for it. Plain and simple. Watchtower theology would have us believe that we bypass Jesus entirely, that our king is Jehovah--not Jesus...

This of course is nothing more than a blatant lie from an enemy of God's organization. JWs believe that Jesus is King and that he is the only way to Jehovah and the only way to salvation. It makes a person wonder if Kline was ever really a JW or is he all a sham, pretending, trying to mislead others by claiming he was once a JW thus leading others to believe that he has more credibility in understanding our teachings since once he was one of us. He has certainly shown that he does not understand what JWs teach at all. Perhaps his words quoted at the start of this commentary really are true when he said: To say that the Watchtower Society taught me "the truth" is false.

The Double Speak

Kline says on his recently revised pathways site: However, it is the view of Pathways-Online that an "apostate" is a person who once had dedicated their life to serving and worshiping Jehovah God and has since turned to serving a triune god. Such ones cannot realistically obtain posting privileges on this forum, since they hold to a fundamental belief which is contrary to that of Pathways-Online. end of quote.

Afterwards Kline said on h2o: I will not go so far as to say that those who hold the Trinitarian view, yet are very much Christlike in the rest of their life and spirituality are condemned, because they view God in a Trinitarian light. If we declare the "Trinity" teaching a false teaching, are we willing to equally go so far as to declare that those who hold a false teaching will be destroyed (Watchtowerism/judgmentalism) because they are not true Christians, because that is the road that we start down, is it not?

Again at Kline's own site he states: In any case, while I am personally opposed to the Trinity doctrine being taught as somehow Biblically based and "truth," I do not prevent others from believing it, should they decide to. However, I will continue to refuse allowance of the discussion of the subject on Pathways-Online, specifically.

Afterward Flowerchild said on Klines site: But since I began to have a personal relationship with Christ I have started praying to Jesus....afterall in Isaiah....He is called our Eternal Father...and in the Lords prayer He tells His followers how to pray.....and He says to pray to our Father in Heavan......I worship my Lord....as Scripture so plainly tells us to.....and as for the trinity....I feel its a way to explain the nature of the Father and the Son...also when you think about it......the HolySpirit is part of both the Father and the Son ....as they both use the HolySpirit.......and this feels so right for me......I know that Christ has shown me these truths.....we are blessed to get out from under the yoke ofthe WTS.....and put on the Yoke of Christ.....

Kline's reply: Deafening silence. No warning. No correction. Flowerchild's words went unchallenged by Kline.

And this rule is put forth by Kline on his site as well: "Bashers" are not welcome at Pathways-Online for several reasons. First, it's like speaking to someone who has blinders on. If you look at the substance of their contributions to the forum, it is primarily negative, critical, and denigrating. We, as Christians, are to be balanced in all things. Unfortunately, some people have nothing to contribute except their "bashing." They love to talk about past faults, especially, and you can tell, because they devote so much of their time to it. Even in posts that they try to make "positive," they can't help but introduce a subtle snipe at their favorite target.

You might be laughing now if this wasn't so sinisterly deceiving. If you have ever examined his site do you find that bashers (of the WT) are not welcome there? The truth is that the owner of the board is one of the premier bashers of the WTS and not only is bashing allowed but it is encouraged by the owner himself. Where ever he posts on discussion boards you will find him bashing the WT. Most recent example of Kline's bashing:
"the Watchtower Society has so plainly modeled itself after the Roman Catholic Church..."

And who can forget the time that Kline tried to sabotage Al's site by taking over the domain that he and/or King had given him to use. If not for Al's good sense to register it under another name his entire site would have been lost. After Kline explained his position he then wrote how he would not speak of the controversy any longer, that he would take the high road. Read Kline's words for yourself:

Warm Christian greetings to everyone,I am writing to let everyone know that after much prayerful consideration and some very kind words that some have expressed privately through emails, I am not going to continue to be distracted by the likes of wolves who go by the name of "thirdwitness," "Al," ... and still others. If the "Future Judgment View" message board wants to continue to serve as sanctuary for these ones, then so be it. They can still cause their damage from afar, I'm sure, clawing and scratching with their endless barrages of empty speeches and contempt, ... I have posted my final, closing thoughts in response to the controversy they are trying to stir up against me. ...I wish I could say that this will finally put the matter to rest; however, I am fairly certain that the attacks, innuendo, and "theocratic warfare" will continue.

Shortly thereafter on the H2O site there appeared a parody of the 3 stooges where ones at Al's site were compared to the 3 stooges. Along with the parody there appeared a picture of the 3 stooges. Someone discovered that the picture was from Kline's site itself implicating Kline as the writer of the parody. Caught with his hand in the cookie jar in direct contrast to his humble 'I'll take the high road' rant he was forced to admit it although he gave the explanation that he had posted the picture on his site for someone else to use in writing the parody. You can read about the whole event here: http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=311102&CategoryID=2967&ThreadID=2268141&tolast=yes#bottom


The Vomit

Thirdwitness would probably say that Jehovah's name is Jehovah. This is, to put it bluntly, a nonsensical answer.

The disciples became apostles, yes. But they were never put in charge, they were never put into a position of authority.

It was not the "calling on the name of Jehovah" that salvation depended upon,
the early Christians were NOT a "people for his name" (that is, Jehovah),

He (thirdwitness) is also trying to argue that the name of Jehovah IS Jehovah. However, as I pointed out in a separate post from this topic, this is not necessarily the case.

Jesus clearly recognized that he was the name of Jehovah

Watchtower theology, and Thirdwitness of course, would have the reader believe that what Jesus is saying here is that Jesus went around saying "Jehovah!" all of the time, when this is not the case at all.

It isn't exactly clear to Bible scholars and historians today how Jesus, as a devout Jew, handled the Tetragrammaton,

And just as borne out by Acts 4:12, the name of Jehovah came to be Jesus.

You might be saying to yourself at this time, Why is he putting teachings of Christendom in this exposure of Timothy Kline? Surely Kline who supposedly was once one of Jehovah's Witnesses would not expound such unbiblical and unreasonable ideas. Yes, it is quite shocking and surprising but these are the actual words of Timothy Kline himself. Lets examine each claim and show how his words directly contradict God's word, something that any child of Jehovah's Witnesses could easily do.

In order to prove that the faithful and discreet slave found among Jehovah's Witnesses today has no authority in preaching and providing the spiritual food for Christ's household Kline stated:
The disciples became apostles, yes. But they were never put in charge, they were never put into a position of authority.

And thus with one swift stroke of his keyboard Timothy Kline has just negated all the writings of the Apostle Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John since they were not in charge and had no authority to write anything further. Their writings are illegitimate. And here we all thought that the apostles and the first century Christian congregation was who Christ left in charge to carry out the preaching of the good news and feeding the sheep. But Timothy Kline has just informed us that this is wrong.

It was the apostle Paul who himself said, "Be obedient to those taking the lead among you and be submissive." (Hebrews 13:17) But Timothy Kline has overuled Paul by saying: But they were never put in charge, they were never put into a position of authority.

Notice other things that the Apostle Paul said about their authority:
1 Thess 4:1 Finally, brothers, we request YOU and exhort YOU by the Lord Jesus, just as YOU received [the instruction] from us on how YOU ought to walk and please God 2 For YOU know the orders we gave YOU through the Lord Jesus. But we exhort YOU, brothers, to go on doing it in fuller measure, 11 and to make it YOUR aim to live quietly and to mind YOUR own business and work with YOUR hands, just as we ordered YOU; 12 Now we request YOU, brothers, to have regard for those who are working hard among YOU and presiding over YOU in [the] Lord and admonishing YOU; 13 and to give them more than extraordinary consideration in love because of their work. 2 Thess 3:4 Moreover, we have confidence in [the] Lord regarding YOU, that YOU are doing and will go on doing the things we order. 6 Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us. 7 For YOU yourselves know the way YOU ought to imitate us, 10 In fact, also, when we were with YOU, we used to give YOU this order: "If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat." 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed."

For ones without authority they certainly did speak with much authority even to the point of giving what is described as 'orders'. There are of course many other scriptures that could be used to show that the apostles were indeed given authority by Jesus and most definitely were left in charge of feeding, disciplining, admonishing, giving orders, and caring for the sheep.

In saying that the apostles were not left in charge Timothy Kline has also contradicted many of Jesus' illustrations. For example this one found at Matthew 25:14 "For it is just as when a man, about to travel abroad, summoned slaves of his and committed to them his belongings. 28 "?Therefore TAKE away the talent from him and give it to him that has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone that has, more will be given and he will have abundance;

Jesus most definitely give his disciples a charge and authority to take care of his belongings. It is oh so very clear that Kline's reasoning and understanding of scriptures are based on nothing more than his own agenda to discredit JWs as God's people.

Furthermore, in direct contrast to what the Bible clearly states Kline said: It was not the "calling on the name of Jehovah" that salvation depended upon,

Paul said exactly the opposite at Roman 10:13 "For 'everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.'

And so Kline makes this case:
To put it in simple terms, the question that the reader should be asking at this point is "What is the name of Jehovah?" After all, according to the NWT rendering, everyone must call on the name of Jehovah to be saved. So, what is Jehovah's name?
Thirdwitness would probably say that Jehovah's name is Jehovah.
This is, to put it bluntly, a nonsensical answer.

Yes, its true. He really said that to say Jehovah's name is Jehovah is nonsensical. The King James translation of the Bible here has replaced Jehovah with Lord as we know. But just how do we know that Paul originally wrote Jehovah instead of Lord?

Because Paul was quoting from Joel 2:32 where it is said, "And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe;" Any Bible will show you that it was speaking about the name of Jehovah. Paul also quoted from Isaiah 52 showing further what he meant. This says, 6 "For that reason my people will know my name, even for that reason in that day, because I am the One that is speaking. Look! It is I."7 How comely upon the mountains are the feet of the one bringing good news, the one publishing peace,..."

Kline's reply: Thirdwitness once again makes reference to Joel 2:32, and tries to make the argument that when it says "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe," that it is literally saying that only by calling "Jehovah!" will anyone get away safe. He is also trying to argue that the name of Jehovah IS Jehovah. However, as I pointed out in a separate post from this topic, this is not necessarily the case.

I know it is unbelievable. But that is what he wrote. But believe it or not it only gets more absurd and ridiculous.

More words used by Kline in his quest to prove JWs incorrect: Jesus clearly recognized that he was the name of Jehovah, for we find him saying in John: "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world." -- John 17:6

And as I noted before, it is not an untenable position to argue that when Jesus said "I made made your name known," that he was acknowledging fulfillment of his role as the Logos made flesh. We have to remember that the referenced scripture in Isaiah 52:6 and Joel 2:32 make reference to a name that Jehovah would provide in due time. And just as borne out by Acts 4:12, the name of Jehovah came to be Jesus.

Jesus clearly recognized that he was the name of Jehovah.

Even a two year old knows that Jehovah's name is not Jesus. Never did the Bible say that the name of Jehovah is Jesus. Proverbs 30:4 makes a very clear distinction between Jehovah's name and the name of His son when it says, "4 Who has ascended to heaven that he may descend? Who has gathered the wind in the hollow of both hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in a mantle? Who has made all the ends of the earth to rise? What is his name and what the name of his son, in case you know?"

Putting Bible scholars above the Bible Kline quotes: It isn't exactly clear to Bible scholars and historians today how Jesus, as a devout Jew, handled the Tetragrammaton, ...

Perhaps it is not clear to some Bible scholars and Timothy Kline but it is clear to honest readers of the Bible because Jesus stated very plainly at John 17:26, "I have made your name known to them and will make it known..."

Kline further says in conjunction with his foolish argument: Watchtower theology, and Thirdwitness of course, would have the reader believe that what Jesus is saying here is that Jesus went around saying "Jehovah!" all of the time, when this is not the case at all...

A better statement would be: Watchtower theology, and Thirdwitness and the Bible of course, would have the reader believe that what Jesus is saying here is that Jesus went around saying "Jehovah!" all of the time.

Since Jesus said in prayer, " I have made your name known..." we can without a doubt scripturally make the exact opposite statement of Mr. Kline: Apostates and opposers of JWs and some Bible scholars and Timothy Kline of course would have the reader believe that Jesus seldom if ever used God's name, "Jehovah!" instead choosing to follow the superstitions and traditions of men while at the same time condemning their traditions of men, when this is not the case at all. But Kline wants us to believe that Jesus Christ did not wish to upset the apple cart and pronounce God's name in keeping with the Jewish superstition that then existed or was beginning to take root at the time.

As repects God taking out a people for his name Kline comments: Contrary to what Thirdwitness claims, the early Christians were NOT a "people for his name" (that is, Jehovah), but became identified as Christians ("a people for Jesus' name, that is, as Christians).

But again the Bible directly in no uncertain terms contradicts the first half of his statement. Acts 15:16, "Sym´e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things,..."

You may have realized already that Timothy Kline was disfellowshipped for apostasy but you may have thought that he was at least sincere about what he believed. It appears from his latest comments that he has lost lost all credibility as a sincere apostate. I am somewhat surprised that Robert King allows him to remain his moderator with such really blatant disregard for God's word and JWs since King does claim that he believes JWs are the true religion. But then again, I'm really not surprised on the other hand because he allows anyone at his site as long as they do not defend JWs.


The Dog Returns to Its Vomit


"For it would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it accurately to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: "The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire."(2 Peter 2:21,22)

Like me, you may have wondered why anyone after knowing the truth would return to the vomituous falsehoods of Christendom. After reading Kline's latest comments I think I have finally come to understand why. They are so consumed with disproving and discrediting JWs that they can no longer look at things honestly, objectively, logically, reasonably, or scripturally.

For example, they are aware that it is only JWs who are preaching the good news and showing the importance of God's name and the sanctifying of it and the truth about the Trinity. Of this there is no doubt. Since that is the case, they must now prove that God's name is of no importance and that whether God is a trinity or not is a non-issue as respects truth and salvation. Thus they must return to the false teachings of Christendom in order to discredit JWs.

Kline's latest arguments have proven this. Kline and other apostates are so obsessed with discrediting JWs that they must out rightly deny overwhelming scriptural evidence in black and white. Honesty, objectivity, logic, reason, and yes even the scriptures must take a back seat to this obsession.

Kline proves that apostates must at all cost prove JWs wrong. Even if it means disregarding the Bible. Even if it means telling us that Jesus went along with the Jewish superstitions to some extent by not pronouncing God's name but condemed them on so many other traditions. Even if it means saying Jehovah's name is not Jehovah. Jehovah's name is Jesus. Even if it means contradicting Jesus when he said in prayer to his Father, "I have made your name known..." Even if it means putting forth the notion that believing the Trinity is ok and that God does not care as long as you live a good life. Even if it means returning to the vomit of Christendom. It is very sad that someone would be reduced to such illogical, unreasonable, dishonest, unscriptural thinking, blindly guided by his hatred for God's organization of people.

On Kline's pathways site he tells about his disfellowshipping for apostasy:
This site is provided by and maintained by Timothy Kline, a Christian who was excommunicated from the Watchtower Society for trying to find out why there are discrepancies and errors in what is taught to Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.

Imagine this:
Kline sitting with 3 elders on his judcial committee as he explains to them the errors and discrepancies of Jehovah's Witnesses.

You would probably say that Jehovah's name is Jehovah. This is, to put it bluntly, a nonsensical answer.

The disciples became apostles, yes. But they were never put in charge, they were never put into a position of authority.

It was not the "calling on the name of Jehovah" that salvation depended upon,
the early Christians were NOT a "people for his name" (that is, Jehovah),

Are you trying to argue that the name of Jehovah IS Jehovah. as I pointed out ...this is not necessarily the case.

Jesus clearly recognized that he was the name of Jehovah

Watchtower theology would have the reader believe that what Jesus is saying here is that Jesus went around saying "Jehovah!" all of the time, when this is not the case at all.

It isn't exactly clear to Bible scholars and historians today how Jesus, as a devout Jew, handled the Tetragrammaton,

And just as borne out by Acts 4:12, the name of Jehovah came to be Jesus.

The elders were no doubt astounded at his way of teaching but not in the way that Jesus astounded his audience with clear truths from God's word.


Postscript:

After I had finished writing this blog and making it public an anonymous poster at H2O came forth with more information connecting Timothy Kline to the 3 Stooges Parody. The anonymous poster provided irrefutable proof that Kline had previously posted the 3 stooges parody at one of his blog sites. In light of this new evidence what would Kline do?

In a Jimmy Swaggart like manner (after being caught with prostitutes), Kline confesses that he sinned and did indeed write the 3 stooges parody. In his confession he compares himself to that of Abraham, Moses, David, and Peter who, of course, all made mistakes and sinned. But it must be pointed out that these persons did not make themselves enemies of God's people and thus enemies of God. They failed to live up to God's standards at times as we all do but this is far different from poking our finger in God's eye by attacking his people. (Zech 2:8 "for he that is touching YOU is touching my eyeball.")

As an opposer and enemy of God's organization and its representatives Kline has shown himself to be more like Korah and Balaam in both his words and attitude. It is not just his telling a lie or making some false step. Like Korah, he continues his downgrading and attacking of those that are taking the lead in God's organization and humbly submitting to the work that Jehovah has given them to do, that of preaching the good news and providing the spiritual food. Like Balaam he insists on cursing God's people with his lies, vomit, and double speak in order to lead persons away from the organization that Jehovah is using today to accomplish his will.

If he wants to really come clean he will realize this and turn from being an enemy of God and His organization. He will return to Jehovah and return to serving Jehovah along with and in support of his faithful anointed ones found only among Jehovah's Witnesses. I would be more than happy as would all of JWs to extend the hand of fellowship to him once again if he were to make such an about face.

Even Kline's close friend, Robert King, (Kline serves as a moderator and webmaster on his site) says concerning those who have followed a path like the path Kline has chosen: So, it is possible for some to become so deluded that they imagine that they are serving Jehovah by advertising the (Watchtower) Society's shortcomings, when in Jehovah's judgment such ones are merely scandal-mongers and fault-finders and working as partners with our many enemies to subvert our faith. In effect, those who are disfellowshipped for apostasy are guilty of calling down evil on Christ's brothers. So, at some point each will have to acknowledge their error or face the consequences.

Which will Kline do? Will he acknowledge his error in siding with enemies of God's people, trying to subvert our faith and calling down evil upon Christ's brothers or will he face the consequences like Korah and Balaam? Time will tell but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an about face from Kline. Great humility would be needed and this is not likely coming from one who claims to have received Bible truths apart from the help of the appointed faithful and discreet slave and fancies himself an interpreter and expounder of scriptures far surpassing the abilities and wisdom of Jesus Christ's appointed servant class.