E-Watchman: Enlightened by Holy Spirit or Another Source?
Also see Robert King and Timothy Kline--Humble Truth Tellers or Masters of Deception? http://thetruthaboutthetruthaboutthetruth.blogspot.com/2005/09/robert-king-and-timothy-kline-humble.html
The truth about the truth: you may have heard this expression in connection with the insight that the person known as E-Watchman (E-W) has brought forth concerning Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society (WTS). His impressive writings certainly show that he is an intelligent person and has vast knowledge of the Bible indeed. How did he get such enlightenment? Is he truly a ‘watchman’ of Jehovah sent forth to reveal the wrongdoings of the WTS and the ‘truth about The Truth’?
E-W’s Little Change
Here is how he was enlightened according to his own testimony in his commentary Are You Saying You are a Prophet?:
“Over the years, I have studied with many dozens of people and persuaded a fair number of them to become Jehovah's Witnesses. But, a few years ago I had an intense, life-altering spiritual experience that very few ofJehovah's Witnesses living today can relate to. For lack of a better term, Ibecame born again, as Jesus worded it. I refer to it as 'my little change.'
It was like reading the Bible for the first time. Everything seemed freshand new, as if, like Paul described, scales had fallen from my eyes, so asto see things in a new light. As a result, my awareness of my relationshipwith Jehovah and Jesus gradually changed.”
According to his own words he became born again or in the terminology of Jehovah’s Witnesses, anointed. And as a result he was able to see things in a ‘new light’. Lets examine some of his beliefs as a result of his ‘little change’.
New Light of E-W
Jehovah’s Witnesses as modern-day Israel--destined to fall and be restored according to Bible prophecy.
Many of their present and supposedly more advanced doctrinal beliefs, strictly formulated by the WTS on the more deeper matters of prophecy are incorrect and cannot be Biblically substantiated.
If its good, then Jerusalem represents God’s people. And if the context indicates bad, …Christendom…However, contrary to what the WTS says, Christendom has never claimed to bear God’s Personal Name, Jehovah.
The 1914 doctrine…an artfully contrived false story.
This Great War or sword is shortly to come upon us in our day and time. Yes, the much dreaded and feared WW III. Daniel calls this war: the war of the king of the north and the king of the south.
The WTS themselves are real experts at double talk.
The seven times spoken of in Daniel 4:16 ARE NOT the same as the Gentile Times spoken of in Luke 21.
The WTS want money, money, and more money.
Can we not deny that the WTS and its illustrious leaders are modern-day Pharisees?
Yes, the king of the North or small horn of Daniel Chapters 7 and 8 will be responsible for turning the 7 headed beast, against Jehovah’s Name people…
How can a living, breathing human draw close to an impersonal organization?
This description could fit only one people and they are JWs, as an organization! They are the only organization that can truly ‘receive’ an ‘operation of error.’
By causing the people to look to themselves and their organization as the real source of salvation and not to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. They have taken a position that rivals even Jehovah God in his own temple.
Yes, after examination of the facts, we would have to say that God’s people today have been undutiful in worshipping the presumed modern day channel of communication, the WTS, particularly with its Governing Body.
The WTS is now clearly saying that they will go through the Great Tribulation, virtually tribulation free.
It is also this same king (king of the North) overrunning the WTS and officially expropriating its properties such as the Patterson Estate, …
If you were to ask a JW if he expected such things to happen to the Society’s physical properties…he would no doubt be completely surprised! And his response? “…Jehovah is going to completely protect his people and His visible organization.
And so, the WT magazine…is placed on the same level, given parity and equal status, with God’s Word.
After the outbreak of this ‘Great War’, the WTS will undoubtedly expect this war to lead to the complete destruction of all governments…lead to the 1000-year reign of Christ Jesus and their deliverance. But not so.
A change in viewpoint concerning the UN—The September 8, 1991 Awake article on the UN is a miserable and totally untenable display of cowardice!
Unfaithfulness is quite evident on the part of the WTS in the publication of this article!
Prostitution or spiritual adultery is definitely involved in the unfaithful leaders of this organization who dwell in Brooklyn Heights, selling out truth for ease of life…
Is it any wonder… that the Bible speaks of them (the WTS) as the villainous ‘Man of Lawlessness…’?
Modern Baalism expressed today (by the WTS).
Have they taken God’s Word the Bible and translated it into numerous languages for the peoples of the world to read? NO! They have instead, used the MEPS system to increase their WT and other moneymaking literature circulation.
42 months will afford him (the Devil) and the beast under his control, a free hand with God’s name people.
Yes, Jehovah wants a humble people. He wants people who refrain from speaking lies or false doctrines like the 1914 dogma, or the false chronologies that contradict His own Word the Bible. Such lies have no place upon the mouth of a people or nation that represents Jehovah.
Clearly, JWs, under the lawyer-like direction of the WTS have indeed acquired a tricky tongue.
Many have been disfellowshipped …for bringing such corrective information to the fore. This has instilled fear in many.
Jehovah is going to take away its (WTS) hedge and break down its wall.
The book entitled—The Report
Anyone who has read his essays and commentaries are familiar with and will certainly recognize his beliefs above. But did you realize that the above quotes are surprisingly not from E-W. They are from the book, The “Report”—Jehovah’s Witnesses As Modern-Day Israel-Destined to “Fall” and be “Restored” According to Bible Prophecy. The similarities are astonishing. In reading the book I felt I was reading the very writings of E-W. So the question to be considered is: is this book just a plagiarism of E-W’s writings?
Amazingly, no it is not. The book was published and copyrighted in 1994 by TWMC, before E-W came forth with his ‘new light’. We have to wonder who indeed is the plagiarist? Is E-W’s enlightenment really from his ‘little change’ or was it obtained from another source, namely, The Report?
You might find most interesting a question ask of E-W in his Mailbag: August 22-28, 2004.
“I have two questions: 1) Are you familiar with a book written by Timothy White titled "A People for his Name?" If so, what are your views on this work? 2) Several years ago I received a portion of a write-up from an organization calling itself "TWMC" from somewhere in Florida. I ask this because your views appear to mirror many of their views. Are you familiar with, or associated with, them?”
E-W’s reply: “No. I am not familiar or associated with either Timothy White or the TWMC.”
Is his reply honest and is it merely a coincidence that his ‘new light’ was a mirror image of The Report book by TWMC? Or is he a fraud with something to hide? Is he simply trying to give the appearance of a ‘watchman’ with insight from Jehovah to deceive unwary Jehovah’s Witnesses in order to promote his real hidden agenda? If he received the ideas for his ‘new light’ from this book, why not just admit it and give credit where credit is due? Indeed just what is the truth about this enlightened, self-proclaimed ‘watchman’ of Jehovah?
Is E-W a Plagiarist and a Liar?
The E-Watchman is a talented writer; of this there is no doubt. He is intelligent and would certainly not be stupid enough to be caught plagiarizing. But is it possible that he would cleverly copy the words of The Report but disguise it by inserting a few words here and there, change the sentence structure, or replace one word with a word of similar meaning. Lets examine some quotes from both The Report and from E-W to find out the answer. (Quotations from The Report are in blue. E-W Quotes are in red)
Concerning Ezekiel 43:7-9 The Report page 163 says: The Society has misused and abused their authority, and have, as it were, ‘placed their threshold with Jehovah’s threshold and their doorpost beside Jehovah’s doorpost.” They have, by their actions, asserted equal status with Jehovah in his own ‘temple’ arrangement!
Watchman from his MailBag: July 6, 2003: The placing of our threshold and doorpost next to Jehovah's own threshold and doorpost may find a parallel today in that Jehovah's Witnesses have exalted Bethel and the Watchtower Society to the lofty place right next to Jehovah's own abode, as it were.
The similarities:
The Society Jehovah's Witnesses has misused and abused their authority, and have, as it were, as it were ‘placed their threshold with Jehovah’s threshold and their doorpost beside Jehovah’s doorpost.” placing of our threshold and doorpost next to Jehovah's own threshold and doorpost They have, by their actions, asserted equal status with Jehovah's Witnesses have exalted Bethel and the Watchtower Society to the lofty place right next to Jehovah's own abode Jehovah in his own ‘temple’ arrangement!
Concerning the Man of Lawlessness The Report p. 169 says, Therefore, they teach that the ‘man of lawlessness’ does not preside over the ‘temple’ of The God as the scriptures plainly say, but rather he presides over an ‘apostate temple of The God, namely Christendom’ Now what do you think about that?
The Apostasy Comes First essay by watchman: Amazingly, the Watchtower says that the man of lawlessness does not really seat himself down in the actual spiritual temple of "The God," as Paul clearly states; but rather, according to the Watchtower, the man of lawlessness only falsely claims to occupy God's temple. Why the obvious contradiction?
Therefore, they teach that the Watchtower says that the ‘man of lawlessness’ does not preside over the man of lawlessness does not really seat himself down the ‘temple’ of The God in the actual spiritual temple of "The God," as the scriptures plainly say, as Paul clearly states but rather he presides over an ‘apostate temple of The God, namely Christendom’ but rather, according to the Watchtower, the man of lawlessness only falsely claims to occupy God's temple. Now what do you think about that? Why the obvious contradiction?
Concerning the September 8,1991 Awake:
The Report p.205 says, This was a very unusual article published by the Watch Tower Society indeed. Did you notice this while reading the article yourself? “The article actually insinuated to over 11 million readers, that the United Nations political organization may be able to bring about their accomplished goal of world peace. You may be saying: “How did the article do that?” It was by skillful and adroit use of noncommittal, cryptic and ambiguous statements …”
Watchman essay, The Watchtower and the UN: What Is the Truth?: Unquestionably, the September 8th, 1991, Awake was a noticeable departure from the Society’s previous writings on the UN. The concluding paragraph on page 10 typifies the ambiguous double-speak, which was obviously cleverly crafted to leave uninformed readers with the impression that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe, perhaps like the UN-promoting Bahai faith, that the United Nations is an instrumentality of God to bring peace.The similarities:
This was a very unusual article published by the Watch Tower Society indeed. Unquestionably, the September 8th, 1991, Awake was a noticeable departure from the Society’s previous writings on the UN. Did you notice this while reading the article yourself? “The article actually insinuated to over 11 million readers, The concluding paragraph on page 10 typifies-- leave uninformed readers with the impression that the United Nations political organization may be able to bring about their accomplished goal of world peace. that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe, perhaps like the UN-promoting Bahai faith, that the United Nations is an instrumentality of God to bring peace.” You may be saying: “How did the article do that? It was by skillful and adroit use which was obviously cleverly crafted of noncommittal, cryptic and ambiguous statements the ambiguous double-speak …
The Report on same page: The September 8, 1991 Awake magazine, in an article dealing with the United Nations, never mentioned God’s Kingdom or any scripture of the Bible to present God’s view of man’s efforts to bring about true peace and security on his own. …Individuals reading this may get the idea that the U.N. is within reach of bringing about this ‘peace for the world.’… no where is there one single scripture mentioned in the entire article!*
Another quote from watchman in the same essay: In fact, there was not even a single word about how God’s kingdom is going to replace all existing kingdoms on earth. Instead, the Awake spoke hopefully of the possibility that a retooled UN might actually succeed in bringing a measure of peace and security to a war-weary world.
Putting them together:
The September 8, 1991 Awake magazine, in an article dealing with the United Nations, never mentioned God’s Kingdom not even a single word about how God’s kingdom or any scripture of the Bible to present God’s view of man’s efforts to bring about true peace and security on his own. is going to replace all existing kingdoms on earth. …Individuals reading this may get the idea that the U.N. is within reach of bringing the Awake spoke hopefully of the possibility that a retooled UN might actually succeed in bringing about this ‘peace for the world.’ , a measure of peace and security to a war-weary world. … no where is there one single scripture In fact, there was not even a single word mentioned in the entire article!
The Report page 208: Could the article mislead people who are unfamiliar with Jehovah’s Witnesses’ beliefs giving them the impression that the Witnesses are in favor of the United Nations?
Watchman in the same essay: Awake magazine published a baffling piece that seemed intended to give the unwary reader the impression that Jehovah’s Witnesses actually endorsed the political objectives of the United Nations.
Putting the two together:
Could the article mislead people who are unfamiliar with Jehovah’s Witnesses’ beliefs Awake magazine published a baffling piece that seemed intended to give the unwary reader giving them the impression the impression that the Witnesses are in favor of the United Nations? that Jehovah’s Witnesses actually endorsed the political objectives of the United Nations
The Report p. 208: Now, why does the reader need to ‘ask Jehovah’s Witnesses’ in his ‘neighborhood for more details?’ …There was ample room for the article to provide the all-important ‘details’ concerning Bible prophesy and the U.N. wasn’t there? But instead, the writers of the article deferred.
Watchman continues: If the reader were to actually follow the Awake magazine’s suggestion and ask one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in their neighborhood "for more details on this matter," surely they would find out that the exciting developments we except have to do with the United Nations fulfilling its role as the prophetic 8th king of Revelation the 17th and 18th chapters. But why didn’t the Awake writers simply say that?
Putting them together:
Now, why does the reader need to ‘ask Jehovah’s Witnesses’ in his ‘neighborhood for more details?’ If the reader were to actually follow the Awake magazine’s suggestion and ask one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in their neighborhood "for more details on this matter," …There was ample room for the article to provide the all-important ‘details’ concerning Bible prophesy and the U.N. wasn’t there? surely they would find out that the exciting developments we except have to do with the United Nations fulfilling its role as the prophetic 8th king of Revelation the 17th and 18th chapters. But instead, the writers of the article deferred. But why didn’t the Awake writers simply say that?
As respects baptismal questions being changed:
The Report page 164-5, Could the individual be, perhaps, dedicated jointly to Jehovah and the ‘spirit directed’ organization??? The implications are serious! You be the judge of that!
E-W in Hosea: A Timely Message for Jehovahs Witnesses: Is it a trivial matter before heaven that persons desiring to dedicate themselves to Jehovah and Jesus are required to also publicly declare that they belong to the Watchtower organization? Each reader can decide for themselves.
Putting them together:
Could the individual be, perhaps, dedicated jointly to Jehovah and the ‘spirit directed’ organization??? that persons desiring to dedicate themselves to Jehovah and Jesus are required to also publicly declare that they belong to the Watchtower organization? The implications are serious! Is it a trivial matter before heaven You be the judge of that! ? Each reader can decide for themselves.
Concerning Israel, in connection with the Covenant, representing JW's, not Christendom:
The Report, page 53: Lets reason upon this: It would certainly make more sense to believe that these prophecies could only apply to one Jerusalem, one people, Jehovah's Witnesses--the true Israel of God. Really , the only people, who have the real capacity to leave the Holy Covenant are the people who are in the Holy Covenant with Him, right??? And Jehovah's Witnesses say that they are the only people, truly, in the New Covenant with Jehovah. For remember, Christendom is not in any Holy Covenant with Jehovah God whatsoever, are they??? What is more, the Israel in question mentioned in prophecy could only represent, and we repeat only represent, the Israel of God that has been covenanted to Him in marriage.
E-W essay, The Watchtower as an NGO: Let us use our powers of reason to ask a few pertinent questions here. First, how may one act wickedly against a covenant unless they are actually one of the parties in the covenant? For example, in Bible times, of all the nations on earth, only Israel was in a covenant with Jehovah God. That being the case, only they could act wickedly against the covenant. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures do we read that Egypt , Moab , or Ammon, or any other nation, acted wickedly against the covenant. Yes, only the Hebrews could, and did, act against the covenant that they were contractually bound to obey. How then could Christendom act against the new covenant unless they were actually in such a covenant to begin with? Since Christ instituted the new covenant with his little flock, it is only anointed Christians that can act wickedly against the covenant by apostatizing from it.
The similarities:
Lets reason upon this: Let us use our powers of reason to ask a few pertinent questions here. It would certainly make more sense to believe that these prophecies could only apply to one Jerusalem, one people, Jehovah's Witnesses--the true Israel of God. For example, in Bible times, of all the nations on earth, only Israel was in a covenant with Jehovah God. Really , the only people, who have the real capacity to leave the Holy Covenant are the people who are in the Holy Covenant with Him, right??? First, how may one act wickedly against a covenant unless they are actually one of the parties in the covenant? And Jehovah's Witnesses say that they are the only people, truly, in the New Covenant with Jehovah. Since Christ instituted the new covenant with his little flock, it is only anointed Christians that can act wickedly against the covenant by apostatizing from it. For remember, Christendom is not in any Holy Covenant with Jehovah God whatsoever, are they??? How then could Christendom act against the new covenant unless they were actually in such a covenant to begin with? What is more, the Israel in question mentioned in prophecy could only represent, and we repeat only represent, the Israel of God that has been covenanted to Him in marriage. Yes, only the Hebrews could, and did, act against the covenant that they were contractually bound to obey.
In connection with the lack of humility shown by the WTS. Both of these comments precede a quote of Zephaniah the third chapter about a tricky tongue and haughty attitude:
The Report, page 294: How can we as Jehovah's people, expect Jehovah to continue to put up with a people that clearly twist His words to attempt to uphold a faulty doctrine, namely that of 1914, as concocted by the WTS?
E-W MailBag: March 29, 2003: Worst of all, the Watchtower has trickily twisted the prophecies to mislead Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that Jehovah could not be more pleased with us. That, of course, is a lie!
The similarities:
How can we as Jehovah's people, Worst of all, the Watchtower expect Jehovah to continue to put up with a people to believe that Jehovah could not be more pleased with us that clearly twist has trickily twisted His words the prophecies to attempt to uphold a faulty doctrine, namely that of 1914 to mislead Jehovah's Witnesses as concocted by the WTS? That, of course, is a lie!
While we might accept that one or two sentences might coincidentally be very similar or almost exact in both E-W’s essays and The Report, what are the chances of it happening this many times? And to be sure there are more examples not here shown. We can only conclude that either he is the author of the book or that he has merely copied the ideas and sentences of the book, but either way he has lied about his knowing of TWMC. We have to wonder why would a person go to such great pangs to hide his connection with this book called The Report by TWMC?
Who is Really Guilty of Double Speak?
Anyone familiar with E-W’s writings are well aware of his scathing denunciations against the WTS for what he perceives as blatant lies and double speak. But it now becomes apparent that E-W cannot himself hold up under such scrutiny as being any different from his characterization of the WTS. But there is more.
Here is a quote from E-W, from his MailBag: December 8, 2002, concerning the need to stay in the organization of JWs and not speak up out about ‘the truth about The Truth’.
"Now, ask yourself, if I preach my views to the congregation, even if I am totally convinced of the rightness of my position, what will be the likely outcome? Will it result in the congregation being built up and encouraged, or will it result in dissension, resentment, needless struggle and debate? If you will honestly supply yourself the answer to that question you should be empowered to know the right course to take."
In fact, this is the one of the few areas where he seems to differ in his beliefs from the book discussed above. But is this mere double speak? Is this truly the attitude he has encouraged and displayed?Most of you reading this are probably well aware that he himself has not followed his own advice. According to his own claims he was disfellowshipped from the congregation of JWs for just that very thing. As a result many have followed the example of this so-called watchman of Jehovah. And often times you will find him praising ones who have stood up and been disfellowshipped for speaking out against the perceived lies and wrongdoings of the WTS. Here is a quote from E-W in the thread, Accurate Disclosure in Line with Truth:
“In a perfect world the Watchtower would admit that it has wrongfully disfellowshipped countless truth-tellers for the sole reason that they refused to peddle Bethel's lies in the name of Jehovah.”
And now he is conducting a campaign to distribute his new book. He is encouraging anyone wanting a copy to buy several copies of the book in order to distribute them to their family and friends, Circuit and District Overseers, Bethelites, and others. For persons unable to buy books he is encouraging each one to email friends and acquaintances and tell them about his web site. Has the time now come to speak out boldly in the congregation about ‘the truth about The Truth’ thus showing his true agenda? Is this the time in his view to go therefore, and make disciples, teaching them to observe all the things E-W has commanded? Or is this just another example of the double talk we have come to see in E-W?
Here is another example of such double talk found on his site called the Paradise Café (PC). The rules of the home page clearly state:
“Anyone who persistently argues that Jehovah’s Witnesses are not the true faith will be warned and perhaps banned (this includes the idea that the anointed are in Christendom and/or Christendom is acceptable to God).”
Has this proved to be true? All one has to do is read the past threads posted at the PC. Many of us have lived it. Who is it that is banned from the PC? Those who defend JWs or those who make such comments as
“What makes you think JW's are the "true" religion? Unfortunately, I have some very bad, terrible news for you: JW's are not the "true" religion.”
“I personally don't believe that anyone can be truly happy being a slave to an organization, a hypocritical one at that. Let the accusations fly, I have conviction in what is reasonable and makes sense, not in what a cult, and that's what it is my friends, tells me that god requires of me” (said concerning the WTS).
“Why do different annointed brothers and sisters have different views on things? The annointed ones that I have met all agreed, ironically without actually knowing each other. However they did not claim any religion their own, as well as all of them keep the 10 commandments without exception. This seems to be one of requirement for the saints as outlined in Revelation… They stay clear of religion.”
As you might imagine we could go on and on but hopefully this will suffice. Persons making these statements remain in good standing. Others defending JWs have been banned from the site. The history there speaks for itself. The rules are not really applied at all. Instead, ironically, it is just the opposite.
That same home page at the PC declares:
“…JW’s are welcome to try and defend the Watchtower’s NGO partnership with the UN…”
Yet when certain ones defended the WTS on the UN/NGO matter what happened? They were banned and one of the administrators in the thread Supporting the Society's NGO apostasy made the following statement:
“Support for the Watchtower's APOSTASY will not be discussed here anymore. Anyone who supports their obvious, blant, apostasy will be ban. It is disgusting and appauling the amount of hypocrisy in this matter. If someone wants to call us OPPOSERS of the WT for believing that it is apostasy thats find but the Watchtower has become opposers of God kingdom by supporting the anti-kingdom, Satans kingdom. Will they escape judgment? No the won't.”
And still the home page says “…JW’s are welcome to try and defend the Watchtower’s NGO partnership with the UN…” This is and remains a glaring example of the double speak of E-W.
Another example, one poster at the PC recently raised this question in the same thread mentioned earlier, Accurate Disclosure in Line with Truth:
“There is alot of discussion here on the DB of how important truth is. Would it be appropriate to clearly disclose on the front page of eWatchman and this DB that they are run by disfellowshiped individuals? I believe there are a variety of JW's that show up here and see that "this is a discussion board for JW's" and don't know that the owners of this place and many of it's participants are disfellowshipped. This may be important to many JW's, while inconsequential to others. Would this be the right and truthful thing to clearly disclose?”
Yes, the ones running the site are disfellowshipped and are no longer in good standing in the organization of JWs and yet this fact is suspiciously missing from the home page of the PC. What about the all-important truth that is supposed to be championed by E-W and his cohorts?
And we will give one final example. Anyone has always been able to post links to other sites at the PC. All kinds of apostate links have appeared and been made available for anyone who chooses to read them. But recently someone posted a link to Al’s Future Judgment site, http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk. It was immediately removed. Why? Is it because some at that site have learned the truth about E-W and he is trying to hide that truth? The administration at the PC came forth with the reason why the link was removed found here, What's going on??
“The site has been moved to a new domain, and it is the obligation of that person to assume expenses involved with making the public aware of it--not the obligation of this board. I am sorry if they mishandled their own obligations, but that doesn't mean that we have to carry them, either. You might try Google.com or Yahoo.com and searching for the site in question.”
“Advertising other Witness-related sites using the board's facilities will no longer be allowed. If people want to provide such links, then they will need to do so OUTSIDE of this board and site."
“In any event, a board announcement that was going to be posted before this all began anyhow has now been posted. It will hopefully explain why the change seemed necessary,…”
“Apparently Al wanted to distance himself from e-watchman so he recently bought his own domain and the old domain no longer pointed to his site. Timothy was never informed of the change nor was he asked to redirect the old domain name. At this time, though, it became apparent to me that Al’s board has become a launching pad for attacks against me so I instructed Timothy not to redirect the old domain to Al’s site. That’s it. There is no conspiracy. No ill intent. I just don’t feel obligated to maintain the connection to Al’s site any more.”
The truth comes out. Notice that the latter reason contradicts the original reason given. The link was obviously removed because E-W views the site as ‘a launching pad for attacks’ against him. The policy was apparently invented after the link to Al’s site was posted. Lies and double speak? So it would appear.
And what did Al, the owner of the Future Judgment site, have to say about what the administration at the PC had written? You will find the following quote on the thread Censorship at the Future Judgment Research Board:
“What upsets me a little bit is that they make out as if it is my fault that people cannot find the new domain.
It's not fair, I didn't switch off the jehovahsjudgment.com address -- e-Watchman and the Paradise Cafe administrator switched it off.
You see, the address was bought and owned by e-Watchman as a gift for me. Around the time I put a link to 3W's site on my site, the domain was switched off by them (may be a coincidence, I dunno).
I bought a back-up domain, the .co.uk one, a week-or-so earlier as I feared what people were saying about e-Watchman was true, and what they said might happen now that I was reconsidering e-Watchman's interpretation of the UN scenario. As it turns out, I've changed my mind back and forth several times about the UN thing anyway.
I had barely been redirecting visitors to the new domain for a day when e-Watchman and his webmaster turned the .com domain off... all without a single word of warning to me. Since then they've banned any links to my new address.
This has also forced me to change my e-mail address. They now have effective control of my old address. It's just lucky that I didn't use that address as my contact details for my webhost or anything - they would then have the power to reset my passwords or even disable to the current site at its new address, if they wanted to.
I've been told that Tim (the Cafe admin) said, when asked why the .com address didn't work anymore, "It is the responsibility of the person that maintains that site's content to notify visitors and regulars of any changes in accessing the site, not ours,"
This implies that the reason the .com address isn't redirecting visitors is my fault! This is unfair. He is the person who deliberately turned it off, stopping it from redirecting visitors.
Quite frankly I am stunned by such behaviour. I feared they may try to shut me down... but I was still shocked when they actually did it.
In addition, I have logged at least two failed attempts to hack into the new website, starting on the very day the .co.uk domain was set up and started receiving visitors. Since only people from the Cafe really know about this place, I'm going to assume it is some sort of zealot from there doing it. I can not say who because I don't know.”
What reason does Al have for lying about the whole thing? What does he stand to gain? Who really is the master at double speak?
Enlightened Watchman or lying charlatan?
E-W once imparted words of wisdom in his MailBag: November 24, 2002,
"Jesus once said that those who are well do not need a physician but those who are ill do. Since most of Jehovah's Witnesses are not spiritually ill, why should you want to force down their throats a dose of medicine that they do not need? Shall we first cause our brother to have doubts just so we can save him from his doubts? Do you imagine that you know what is best for the millions of Jehovah's Witnesses who are serving God the only way they know how? My observation is that those who insist on telling Jehovah's Witnesses "the truth about the truth" don't know the truth themselves and are not really capable of imparting to Jehovah's Witnesses anything having to do with faith."
He now himself insists on forcing "down their throats a dose of medicine" to JWs who are not "spiritually ill" by the release and distribution of his new book. Therefore by his own words above he condemns himself as being one who "don't know the truth" himself and is "not really capable of imparting to Jehovah's Witnesses anything having to do with faith." When did his reasoning change? Was it when he sucked in so many followers so that an effective campaign to distribute his book could be carried out?
Who is E-Watchman? Is he a recently disfellowshipped witness who spoke up about the NGO matter and was thus removed from the congregation? Or was he disfellowshipped long ago? Exactly what is his connection with TWMC? Some have even suggested that he is somehow associated with The True Faith ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Association of Romania. While I have no personal evidence of this, one thing is certain: we cannot rely on E-Watchman to provide us with truthful answers.
But in view of the foregoing we can now better answer the following questions accurately? Is the E-Watchman a true watchman of Jehovah enlightened by His holy spirit to bring forth the ‘truth about The Truth’? Or is he a deceitful and lying charlatan, posing as an angel of light, trying to mislead the faithful in a sinister scheme for his own personal reasons? In the words of E-Watchman and the book, The Report, that he is so fond of parroting, each reader can decide for themselves and you be the judge of that!
*no where is there one single scripture mentioned in the entire article! This quote is from page 211 of The Report.
Compare with volume turned on.
http://jehovah-has-become-king.com/ http://livingwatersforum.com/report1.html
posted by thirdwitness at 8:30 PM
31 Comments:
E-Watchman fits the apostle Paul's inspired description of a true demonic apostate who misleads others to their harm. He said, "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." (Acts 20:29, 30) However, he also stated that these type of apostates and charlatans will be exposed - as this board has done - and will only degrade. His words are, "Now in the way that Jan´nes and Jam´bres resisted Moses, so these also go on resisting the truth, men completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. 9 Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their madness will be very plain to all, even as the [madness] of those [two men] became. . . But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled." - 2 Tim. 3:8-13.
Thank you for this most excellent expose of this most dangerous charlatan!
http://catzplace.blogspot.com/2005/09/e-watchman-apostasy-plagiarism.html
Please refer to some information on Hourglass2 Outpost (International Section) about "The Report". It is very interesting and backs up what you have written.
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=311102&CategoryID=2967
robert king see's himself as a watchman who is supposedly warning jehovah's witness's of what is soon to befall the organisation.
He claims to be one of the "annointed" his fellow annointed brothers and sisters however are NOT SPEAKING OUT but are patiently waiting for Jehovah to set matters straight I wonder what they are thinking as they see him shipwreck the faith of the very one's he says he's trying to help.Its sad to see soo many become followers of men.
From memory, when things went wrong in the past (Hebrew Scriptures) within Gods People, Jehovah used just one Prophet (who was known as a Prophet); to go to whomever the Power or Powers to be in charge were at the time. The Prophet concerned did not have a rabble of dysfunctional misfits, troublemakers, Apostates etc following him around the countryside. Jehovah did not raise up a Mob to follow the Prophet to King Whomever, to condemn whatever. From memory, it was usually just One Man, who was straight to the point, and was talking straight to the Power to be. If whoever did not listen to the Prophet, in was usually The End of Whomever and Whatever, some time after the warning. Watchman is a dysfunctional rabble-rouser, who thinks he is a prophet whom Jehovah has raised up, to condemn the Watchtower etc. Jehovah simply would not work this way, in this case in the 20th – 21st Century. If something is wrong, it is Jehovah’s job to see to it.
Quoting the Book:
"Faith on the March"
"I have seen men try to wreck it from inside the organization, just as deliberately as those who fought it from without. But I've seen these men discredited by their own actions and finally separated by their own choice; yet the theocratic society has remained intact in structure as well as in its standards of conduct. I've seen all vestiges of creature worship, the plague of Christendom, rooted out and the name of Jehovah given its rightful place of due honor."
" A faker in our midst is as easy to identify as a leopard amongst sheep. You can't counterfeit or sham the principles that Jehovah's witnesses live by or put them out and take them off like a coat. If they do not become a part of you by a continued cultivating of God's spirit, Jehovah will weed you out and separate you from his organization."
Comments to:
To Al (Future Judgement) and thirdwitness.
Please be Very Careful in what you are doing. It is NOT YOUR JOB description to RUN the Universe. This job description belongs ONLY to Jehovah.
Like Watchman and hundreds of others, Jehovah has NOT telephoned AL (future judgement) or thirdwitness to go into bat for him.
As in the quotes from “Faith on the March”, only Jehovah can and will sort anything out IF NEED BE.
You are both playing into Satan’s hands, by also diverting energy and attention away from the Preaching work etc.
Leave Watchman and all the others to cook in their own juice.
If there is a Future Judgement or whatever, it is none of your business. This is only Jehovah’s Business.
http://www.e-cepher.com/books/fotm/mfaith.html
I took the time to view King's video clip, its a clever spiel, basically it sounds very similiar to a door to door presentation, speaking of how the world is close to calamity and how Jehovah is soon going to step in to right matters.Of course this is all very true,and no doubt all Jw's would be nodding their heads in agreement with what he was saying.
He then go's onto present his book and asks the purchaser to by "numerous" copies so that we can give them to other family members or friends.Maybe we could send a copy to our C.O? Or maybe even to Bethel!!!
robert king once wrote, "that his message is for those who had become lost and confused"amongst God's organisation"
He said that those who were happy serving Jehovah under the current arrangement of things were not in need of what he had to say!
Why then, the need to try and get "his followers" to be used as pack mules in getting his "faith wrecking" book to those who do not yet need it?
Its quite simple .....robert king's insideous plan is to divide and conguer the watchtower under the guise of "truth about the truth"
His artfully devised plan was to first gain the trust of those who would listen to him.He then manipulated many to do his dirty work, "mail outs" under the notion of helping your brothers become "enlightened" yet this enlightenment only served in causing many to leave their faith.
He is under the influence of demons, double speak is his first language.I urge everyone to not buy his book.Jehovah's WILL shall be done .....but not via a charlatan called robert king.
Regarding Future Judgement Posts:
mranderson -
How we at Future Judgements can get along with those at E watchmans .
I felt that in order to stop the un christ atitude towards EW[?] and those there I would start this topic in order to build some bridges with them and them with us . At the end of the day none of us know really the motives and background of anyone else on these websites so perhaps we should just start to be peacable with each other . Whats the point of trying to prove that Watchman is evil or bad or whatever? We all are in the sight of God anyway.Thats why we need the ransom . Forgive 77 times and all that . Let try to get on with them after all we are all really after the same thing and that is to shed more honest light on the truth. No one has the absolute truth do they so lets encorage our brothers and sisters and not judge them . If we start to judge Jehovah might decide to judge us . That would be a pity we would never get to know the whole truth then . What would Christ do if he was a member of this site or that of E watchmans?
al -
Another reason it has to stop is because this board was created for research and discussion on biblical matters relating to prophecy.
So let's get back to work.
My Comments Regarding the Above:
mranderson said:
"I would start this topic in order to build some bridges with them and them with us."
(EW) has been DISFELLOWSHIPPED, so why?
“Let try to get on with them after all we are all really after the same thing and that is to shed more honest light on the truth”
Oh really?
“ What would Christ do if he was a member of this site or that of E watchmans? “
Christ would be a member of these sites ???????????????
Al said:
"So let's get back to work."
What Work? "This Good News of the Kingdom.............”???????
Watchman and hundreds of others are Spiritual Terrorists; they have thousands sucked into THEIR Agenda. Real Life Terrorists (London Bombings etc), by default ALSO suck into THEIR agenda thousands of Security Forces and Innocent by-standers, and Millions - Billions of Dollars. Watchman and such like also have the same effect; you are also a Puppet on a string, Watchman (as a spin off) is now controlling your own life.
Watchman's Future Judgement Agenda is controlling Al's Life.
Take a look at all the latest posts by Watchman and Blog and ISOMAN. Their real Agenda is now coming out now at high speed. It is an Evangelical, Pentecostal, Born Again, and Christian Fundamentalist Agenda.
ISOMAM
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:25 pm Post subject: "Lord, WHOM Shall We Go Away To?"
________________________________________
"Simon Peter answered [Jesus]: 'Lord, WHOM shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.' "--John 6:68, 69.
How often have we heard and spoken these words? And, how often have you heard someone make the substitution which is so common and prevalent? ... "Where?" instead of "WHOM?" Peter, and the other initial Christian disciples, had the unspeakable privilege of personal association with Jesus Christ, the Messiah, our Lord and Master. There was, -- and, is, -- no other "WHOM," to be sought out.
And, "Where???" wasn't even a consideration. The "Where" was wherever Jesus might be!
Is it any different for us today? No, it is not.
"Jesus said to her: "Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you people worship the Father. ... Nevertheless, the hour is coming and it is now, when THE TRUE WORSHIPERS WILL WORSHIP THE FATHER WITH SPIRIT AND TRUTH, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship Him. God is a Spirit, and THOSE WORSHIPING HIM MUST WORSHIP WITH SPIRIT AND TRUTH."--John 4:21-24.
So, "Where" exactly was all of this to take place? The Scriptures don't identify a "Place," a "Building," a "Corporation," or a "Publishing House," do they? No, they don't. Maybe, a "Religious Institution"? ???
"Neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem."
The next time you hear someone attempting to quote Peter's succinct, right-on-target, rhetorical question, which he put to Jesus, namely, "Lord, WHOM shall we go away to?" ... but they inadvertently say, "WHERE shall we go away to?" ... why not render them a loving service? Why not, kindly, point out what Peter's question REALLY was?
"Jesus said to him: 'I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE. No one comes to the Father except through me."--John 14:6.
Have you discovered Jesus Christ and his sayings of everlasting life? Then, you have found the only necessary, "WHOM." Wherever you happen to be, ... that's the "Where."
Much LOVE to ALL! isomam
_________________
"Christ Jesus came ... to save sinners. Of these, I am foremost."--1 Timothy 1:15.
thirdwitness and Al,
run for your lives and don't look back.
"what does light have to do with darkness?"
robert king has finally shown to all his deck of cards,he has spoken abusively of those who are supposed to be his brothers! God's "remnant" sit quitely in unison waiting on Jehovah to set matters straight.I don't see fellow annointed one's coming out to shake his hand, congratulating him for exposing the short comings of the physical structure that Jehovah has allowed in order for his NAME to be made known!
Satan makes darkness seem like light!robert king's false light has taken many away from the christian congregation.
While he on the one hand openly suggests to stay within the organisation, he applauds those who make a stand for the truth and get themselves df'd.
Knowing full well that it has been HIS very words that have taken those one's to judicial meetings.
king carefully set the trap .....many have been caught .....please don't be the next.
Future Judgement (Al & thirdwitness )
Please check your secular History (not Watchman History)
As an X - Catholic myself, I know full well, that the Catholic Church is fully and totally convinced that it is the Spiritual Israel of god.
Christendom WAS originally the Original True Christian Church that evolved into the APOSTATE Orthodox, Catholic and later Protestant Churches. Christendom was and is Apostate Spiritual Israel that was started by Jesus and the Apostles. The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is not Apostate Spiritual Israel.
Check your Secular History.
Tuesday, July 26, 2005 ::...::
Benedict and Israel -- There was a slightly loose article in yesterday's Washington Times that looked at Pope Benedict's views on the theological significance of the Jewish people and, obliquely, at the place of Israel. The piece is basically a comment on an excerpt from a 2000 interview with Cardinal Ratzinger. After quoting some interesting theological considerations, which are more or less left unpacked, the author cites this bit, which he found puzzling:
... There is one puzzling section in this interview and that involved Cardinal Ratzinger and his view of the State of Israel or rather his nonview, when he said: "This tiny people, who no longer have any country, no longer any independent existence, but lead their life scattered throughout the world, yet despite this keep their own religion, keep their own identity; they are still Israel, the way the Jews are still Jews and are still a people even during the 2,000 years when they had no country; this is an absolute riddle."
There come to my mind two thoughts, which aren't really a commentary on the Cardinal's words. First, that there is again a state in Palestine called "Israel" does not mean we should equate it with the State of Israel we find in the Bible, any more than we should equate Charlemagne's Roman State (or Mussolini's) with the Roman State we find in Livy or Suetonius. The Old Testament promises relating to Israel have nothing to do with the country now headed by Ariel Sharon, and it's a wretched mistake for Americans to give uncritical support to the modern Israel just because the ancient Israel holds a privileged place in the Scriptures.
What then of the promises to Israel, that it would abide forever and have an inheritance more numerous than the sands of the seashore? That promise is fulfilled in the Church, which sprouts forth from the stump of Jesse and whose first generation were almost wholly sons of Abraham according to the flesh. To that faithful Remnant, who inherit the promises, were joined the people of the Gentiles -- Christ the Cornerstone making the two peoples into one People, united by a single faith and bound together by the same Sacraments into the one Church, which encircles the world. The Abrahamic promises, in the Church's traditional understanding, still hold their value within God's Israel, which can be found not in some modern nation-state, but in the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
http://donjim.blogspot.com/2005_07_01_donjim_archive.html
Apostolic Succession
In Christianity, the doctrine of apostolic succession (or the belief that the Church is 'apostolic') maintains that the Christian Church today is the spiritual successor of the Church of the Apostles. Different Christian denominations interpret this doctrine in different ways .
The Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, Anglican, Old Catholic, Independent Catholic, and some Lutheran Churches hold that apostolic succession is maintained through the ordination of their bishops in unbroken personal succession back to the apostles but these Churches do not necessarily interpret this "succession" identically. In Roman Catholic and Orthodox theology, the unbrokenness of apostolic succession is significant because of Jesus Christ's promise that the "gates of hell" (Matthew 16:18) would not prevail against the Church, and his promise that he himself would be with the apostles to "the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). According to this interpretation, a complete disruption or end of such apostolic succession would mean that these promises were not kept as would an apostolic succession which, while formally intact, completely abandoned the teachings of the Apostles and their immediate successors; as, for example, if all the bishops of the world agreed to abrogate the Nicene Creed or to repudiate the Bible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Succession#Jehovah.27s_Witnesses
Posted on Paradise Cafe or whatever it is called NOW ( Paradise Bar and Grill )
Benjamin
Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Jehovah Himself Has Become King
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that the book is out, I will voice my concerns.
Please note: None of my concerns came from any Anti-watchman website or individual. These are my own words in their entirety.
I've been lurking on the PC, and for a short time, post on there before the board software change, and the registration requirements (which I couldn't be bothered with at the time).
I've made a few friends on here, that I cherish dearly, and talk to on the regular basis.
I found E-watchman.com about 3 years ago by accident. I found his essays "enlightening" as most would put it, and even now, I do believe that his assertions about the coming discipline of Jehovah's people as being biblically true. However, the mailing campaigns to the Society's branches about the NGO affair, and most recently this new book, gives me cause for concern.
An E-watchman opposer quoted Watchman on a mailbag from a few years ago that stated:
"Jesus once said that those who are well do not need a physician but those who are ill do. Since most of Jehovah's Witnesses are not spiritually ill, why should you want to force down their throats a dose of medicine that they do not need? Shall we first cause our brother to have doubts just so we can save him from his doubts? Do you imagine that you know what is best for the millions of Jehovah's Witnesses who are serving God the only way they know how? My observation is that those who insist on telling Jehovah's Witnesses "the truth about the truth" don't know the truth themselves and are not really capable of imparting to Jehovah's Witnesses anything having to do with faith."
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement, as it is biblical. However, the mailing campaigns and this newest book puts E-watchman at odds with this statement. My feelings on this matter are this:
1. The NGO affair has gone on reportedly for at least 10 years. But despite this, people still were able to learn the truth about Jehovah, his Son, and his plan for mankind, right?
The 1914 doctrine, as faulty as it could be, did not stop Witnesses from giving hope to those in despair to know that Jehovah will not tolerate the current affairs of humankind forever.
So my question to anyone who endorse a campaign about "warning" everyone about the Watchtower's dealings. Are we going counter to Jehovah's wishes? Are we not commanded to preach the GOOD news of Jehovah's Kingdom? (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20)
2. Are we not to encourage, or as the NWT translates it, incite our brothers to "love and fine works"? (Hebrews 10:24)
3. Are we admonished by the Apostle Paul, NOT to judge our brothers until everything is brought to light? (1 Corinthians 4:4, 5)
Let's examine that last scripture for a moment; the reason we are urged not to judge our brothers is because Jehovah has already appointed a Judge (Christ). And who better to judge us? But better yet, he can bring out the manifestations of the heart, and brings all things in darkness into the light. No human can accomplish this.
I ask E-watchman and anyone who feels similarly, what do you hope will come from someone who has found joy in Jehovah's organization despite the events that we've uncovered to read this book? Will it encourage them? Will it stumble them? Would it sit well with them knowing what some of our brothers have done?
E-watchman, I personally think that you're running ahead of Jehovah's timetable. I won't dispute the errors of the WT doctrine, but until Jehovah feels it is the right time to address them, you are actually going counter to Jehovah's commandments to us to preach the good news by placing these stumbling blocks to not only those who do the preaching, but also to those who are being preached to.
Jesus said that the true mark of his disciples is love (John 13:35). Not knowledge, not "exposing the wicked", etc.
As Paul states:
"Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a)
A point to keep in mind.
Some have questioned the issue over domain ownership. The earliest available domain records indicate that the domain was registered to "Walt Reyes." This is correct. Robert King was unaware at the beginning of ICANN requirements that all information on a domain registration had to be true and accurate (not pseudonymous). As a courtesy, I took over the domain ownership in Mr. King's behalf in order to meet ICANN requirements. As much as some try to turn this into some sort of conspiracy, it all really came down to meeting legal obligations.
http://www.jehovahsjudgment.com/
Can YOU trust this man ?
"Robert King was unaware at the beginning of ICANN requirements that all information on a domain registration had to be true and accurate (not pseudonymous)."
http://jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/vbv_micah4_1.html
Quoting:
Consider for a moment, though, the chapter that directly precedes chapter four. In that third chapter, Jehovah has the most damning words for the “heads” and “commanders” of his people, saying, “YOU haters of what is good and lovers of badness, tearing off their skin from people and their organism from off their bones”. Very strong words indeed! —
Bethel's interpretation insists that Jehovah calls Christendom "my people" - a people who left Jah's worship centuries ago.
Surely that cannot be applied to Jehovah’s Witnesses, can it? Bethel says no, they say those damning words – of which there are many – apply to Christendom. However, Jehovah also calls them (supposedly Christendom), “my people” who have been “caused to wander”, and who are “builders of Zion”! Later in the same prophecy, by the time we arrive at chapter four, according to Bethel’s interpretation the identity of Zion changes from Christendom to Jehovah’s Witnesses. In fact, according to the prophecy which we will shortly consider, the very same entity – Judah – is said to be destroyed and then restored.
How reasonable is it that Jehovah would call pagan Christendom “my people”, destroy them, and then promise to restore them afterwards? I do not believe it is reasonable at all, do you? How reasonable is it that the very same entity – Judah – should change identities within a few verses?
So could the damning words of the prophet Micah be directed at Jehovah’s modern worshippers – who are now known earth-wide as Jehovah’s Witnesses? Well, remember that Jehovah’s prophet directed his rage primarily at the “heads” and “commanders” of his people (). With that in mind, before we begin considering chapter 4, let’s examine chapter 3 and see what reasons Jehovah would have to destroy his people, prior to the restoration spoken of in chapter 4.
Al and thirdwitness:
This is so simple to explain:
1) Early Christian Church (my people) no argument.
2) Early Christian Church (my People) , becomes Apostate.
3) Apostate Christain Church (my People) gets adverse judgement.
4) True Christians in Apostate Christian Church (my People), flee Christendom and become (my People) Jehovahs Witnesses and Restore True Worship.
Quoting:
"reasonable is it that the very same entity – Judah – should change identities within a few verses?"
Easy:
If you are fleeing New Orleans, you arrive some where else within hours, and group together (Yes?)
If New Orleans was totally Destoyed, not to be rebuilt, the People who left, would rebuild New Orleans somewher else, and start building right away (yes ?).
As I mentioned previously above about Christendom, you have been blinded by Watchman's IGNORANCE of world history. Please get your Secular History Books out, and go to it. Study the way Christendom evolved and the way THEY see themselves. Quoting "Peter was the First Pope" according to Christendom.
It is just so Black and White.
“My People” move seamlessly to “My Apostate People”
Apostolic Succession
St. Peter's successors carried on his office, the importance of which grew with the growth of the Church. In 97 serious dissensions troubled the Church of Corinth. The Roman Bishop, Clement, unbidden, wrote an authoritative letter to restore peace. St. John was still living at Ephesus, yet neither he nor his interfered with Corinth. Before 117 St. Ignatius of Antioch addresses the Roman Church as the one which "presides over charity . . . which has never deceived any one, which has taught others." St. Irenaeus (180-200) states the theory and practice of doctrinal unity as follows:
With this Church [of Rome] because of its more powerful principality, every Church must agree, that is the faithful everywhere, in this [i. e. in communion with the Roman Church] the tradition of the Apostles has ever been preserved by those on every side. (Adv. Haereses, III)
The Church which owns the Roman pontiff as its supreme head extends its ministrations over the whole world. It owns its obligation to preach the Gospel to all peoples. No other Church attempts this task, or can use the title of Catholic with any appearance of justification. The Greek Church is at the present day a mere local schism. None of the Protestant bodies has ever pretended to a universal mission. They claim no right to convert to their beliefs the Christianized nations of Europe. Even in regard to the heathen, for nearly two hundred years missionary enterprise was unknown among Protestant bodies. In the nineteenth century, it is true, many of them displayed no little zeal for the conversion of the heathen, and contributed large sums of money for this purpose. But the results achieved were so inadequate as to justify the conclusion that the blessing of God did not rest upon the enterprise.
Benjamin
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Jehovah Himself Has Become King Back to top
Now that the book is out, I will voice my concerns.
Please note: None of my concerns came from any Anti-watchman website or individual. These are my own words in their entirety.
I've been lurking on the PC, and for a short time, post on there before the board software change, and the registration requirements (which I couldn't be bothered with at the time).
I've made a few friends on here, that I cherish dearly, and talk to on the regular basis.
I found E-watchman.com about 3 years ago by accident. I found his essays "enlightening" as most would put it, and even now, I do believe that his assertions about the coming discipline of Jehovah's people as being biblically true. However, the mailing campaigns to the Society's branches about the NGO affair, and most recently this new book, gives me cause for concern.
An E-watchman opposer quoted Watchman on a mailbag from a few years ago that stated:
"Jesus once said that those who are well do not need a physician but those who are ill do. Since most of Jehovah's Witnesses are not spiritually ill, why should you want to force down their throats a dose of medicine that they do not need? Shall we first cause our brother to have doubts just so we can save him from his doubts? Do you imagine that you know what is best for the millions of Jehovah's Witnesses who are serving God the only way they know how? My observation is that those who insist on telling Jehovah's Witnesses "the truth about the truth" don't know the truth themselves and are not really capable of imparting to Jehovah's Witnesses anything having to do with faith."
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement, as it is biblical. However, the mailing campaigns and this newest book puts E-watchman at odds with this statement. My feelings on this matter are this:
1. The NGO affair has gone on reportedly for at least 10 years. But despite this, people still were able to learn the truth about Jehovah, his Son, and his plan for mankind, right?
The 1914 doctrine, as faulty as it could be, did not stop Witnesses from giving hope to those in despair to know that Jehovah will not tolerate the current affairs of humankind forever.
So my question to anyone who endorse a campaign about "warning" everyone about the Watchtower's dealings. Are we going counter to Jehovah's wishes? Are we not commanded to preach the GOOD news of Jehovah's Kingdom? (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20)
2. Are we not to encourage, or as the NWT translates it, incite our brothers to "love and fine works"? (Hebrews 10:24)
3. Are we admonished by the Apostle Paul, NOT to judge our brothers until everything is brought to light? (1 Corinthians 4:4, 5)
Let's examine that last scripture for a moment; the reason we are urged not to judge our brothers is because Jehovah has already appointed a Judge (Christ). And who better to judge us? But better yet, he can bring out the manifestations of the heart, and brings all things in darkness into the light. No human can accomplish this.
I ask E-watchman and anyone who feels similarly, what do you hope will come from someone who has found joy in Jehovah's organization despite the events that we've uncovered to read this book? Will it encourage them? Will it stumble them? Would it sit well with them knowing what some of our brothers have done?
E-watchman, I personally think that you're running ahead of Jehovah's timetable. I won't dispute the errors of the WT doctrine, but until Jehovah feels it is the right time to address them, you are actually going counter to Jehovah's commandments to us to preach the good news by placing these stumbling blocks to not only those who do the preaching, but also to those who are being preached to.
Jesus said that the true mark of his disciples is love (John 13:35). Not knowledge, not "exposing the wicked", etc.
As Paul states:
"Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a)
A point to keep in mind.
Download Post
watcher
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: Back to top
As the WT timetables themselves show 1914 could not be possible as Jerusalem fell around 587, not 607 (Read some essays about WT dating), how could the slave be found faithful in 1919? Since 1914 could not be the date Christ arrived, most likely the evil slave is still among the organization.
How can one, with good conscience, preach that Christ became King in 1914, when the facts don't support that. Will Jehovah tolerate us preaching something we know is false?
Download Post
Benjamin
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: Back to top
watcher wrote (View Post): › ‹ Select ›‹ Expand ›
As the WT timetables themselves show 1914 could not be possible as Jerusalem fell around 587, not 607 (Read some essays about WT dating), how could the slave be found faithful in 1919? Since 1914 could not be the date Christ arrived, most likely the evil slave is still among the organization.
How can one, with good conscience, preach that Christ became King in 1914, when the facts don't support that. Will Jehovah tolerate us preaching something we know is false?
I don't. I focus on what Jehovah's Kingdom will do for mankind in general. Exactly when Christ's presence actually occurred is not nearly as important as getting the message about what his presence will ultimately bring.
I think it's a fruitless effort as to discern when certain events (like Christ's presence) will occur.
Jesus plainly stated two things about his presence & oncoming judgment, namely that only Jehovah knows the exact timing, and most importantly, it is not our place to know. Notice how even the WT bore this point out in the September 15, 1998 WT:
"Jesus’ apostles asked him time-oriented questions just before his death and after his resurrection. (Matthew 24:3; Acts 1:6) In reply, however, Jesus did not give them a means of calculating dates. In one case he gave them a composite sign, and in the other he said that ‘it did not belong to them to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father had placed in his own jurisdiction.’—Acts 1:7.
2 Although Jesus is Jehovah’s only-begotten Son, he himself has not always known his Father’s timetable for events. In his prophecy regarding the last days, Jesus humbly acknowledged: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) Jesus was willing to wait patiently for his Father to reveal to him the exact time for destructive action to be taken against this wicked system of things.
3 Two things can be deduced from the way Jesus answered questions relating to when things would occur in fulfillment of God’s purpose. First, that Jehovah has a timetable; and second, that he alone fixes it, and his servants cannot expect to be given precise advance information of his times or seasons.
4 What is meant by “times” and “seasons”? Jesus’ statement recorded at Acts 1:7 contains two aspects of time. The Greek word rendered “times” means “time in the sense of duration,” a space of time (long or short). “Seasons” is the translation of a word referring to a fixed or an appointed time, a particular season, or period, marked by certain features. Regarding these two original words, W. E. Vine states: “In Acts 1:7, ‘the Father has set within His own authority’ both the times (chronos), the lengths of the periods, and the seasons (kairos), epochs characterized by certain events."”
So neither the duration of his presence or when the period begins/ends are known by anyone except Jehovah.
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watcher
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject: Back to top
Yet 1914 is constantly brought up in talks at the hall. What do you tell your Bible Students?
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Benjamin
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: Back to top
watcher wrote (View Post): › ‹ Select ›‹ Expand ›
Yet 1914 is constantly brought up in talks at the hall. What do you tell your Bible Students?
I tell would them what I've just told you. I would also tell them that when it comes to times for certain prophetic events, even Jesus' own disciples had incorrect assumptions. They did not comprehend the truth about the events until after they unfolded (i.e. Jesus' death and resurrection).
[Edit] Ironically, the 9/15/98 Watchtower article where the Society (rightly) pointed about no one knowing the times or the seasons regarding Christ's presence except Jehovah, contradicts what the Kingdom Proclaimer's book said about 1914:
"Meanwhile, what about October 1914? For decades Russell and his associates had been proclaiming that the Gentile Times would end in 1914. Expectations were high. C. T. Russell had been critical of those who had set various dates for the Lord’s return, such as William Miller and some Second Adventist groups. Yet, from the time of his early association with Nelson Barbour, he was convinced that there was an accurate chronology, based on the Bible, and that it pointed to 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times."
But then after 1914 it says: "No, the Bible Students were not ‘taken home’ to heaven in October 1914. Nevertheless, the Gentile Times did end in that year. Clearly, the Bible Students had more to learn as to the significance of 1914. Meanwhile, what were they to do? Work! As The Watch Tower of September 1, 1916, put it: “We imagined that the Harvest work of gathering the Church [of anointed ones] would be accomplished before the end of the Gentile Times; but nothing in the Bible so said. . . . Are we regretful that the Harvest work continues? Nay, verily . . . Our present attitude, dear brethren, should be one of great gratitude toward God, increasing appreciation of the beautiful Truth which He has granted us the privilege of seeing and being identified with, and increasing zeal in helping to bring that Truth to the knowledge of others.”
What's puzzling about this particular passage is the fact that they believed the Gentile times ended in 1914, despite their expectations not coming true. Furthermore, there were no reasons given at that time as to why the stuck with the date.
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Don't expect your answer anytime real soon benjamin, watchman likes to go on "vacation" when it starts to get hot in the kitchen!
I can see him and timothy sitting in some seedy cafe ....maybe the old paradise cafe.... eating stale left over blueberry muffins that he brought with him from pathways while they plan their next move.Maybe Isomam is there as well.There are more moves going on between pathways and paradise then there are on a chess board.
anyone tried a cyber muffin? Apparently the travelers bistro put on muffins and hot coffee most mornings,only problem is that while you eat them you have to also digest a mountain full of apostate teachings,if you have a weak stomach I suggest you give it a wide birth.If you have an iron stomach then maybe at your own risk you ask for the "meal deal" but only get it at the drive thru,remember there's no refund if you come down with a bad case of verbal diarrhoe'a.
Be careful as to the cistern you drink from.
Some good advice to keep in mind:
Acts 5:38,39 "....Do not meddle with these men, but let them alone; because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to ovethrow them;) otherwise, you may perhaps be found fighters actually against God."
Let Jehovah sort this out.
Howdy,
regarding the dispute between Al and E-W (R.K.), I just find it very interesting that Al's site still has many links to E-watchman and that Al refers to him as "Brother E-Watchman".
Also, I noticed that a lot of the links from Al's site to others and then again to others referred again to E-watchman's site. I wonder whether E-W actually operates multiple sites and blogs "anonymously" which all in a way reference E-Watchman.
curious,
Moderator-1
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:05 am Post subject: Remembering why we are here Back to top
As one of the moderators for this new DB, I want to extend my gratitude to everyone that has helped get things rolling here. The discussions have been interesting and insightful, and I hope that they continue to reflect the deep love we have for God's Word.
And it might also be a good time to write a reminder as to why we are here. This will hopefully help us to avoid the snags that caused many of the problems on the previous DB, and also help new ones that find the Discussion Board to have a better idea of what has brought us together and what we are trying to accomplish.
Most important to remember is that we are here to encourage and be upbuilding to one another. Most here are well acquainted with the problems and issues facing our organization today and perhaps have even experienced firsthand the fallout of those issues.
Many of us were startled to learn that child molestation goes on within our organization. Sometimes, the perpetrator is caught and expelled, but pragmatism also generates concern as to how many still remain undetected. This is a valid and serious concern as worshipers of Jehovah, because we want to be a clean and righteous people. In the past, some have tried to excuse the Watchtower from culpability in this matter when there are inarguable examples in the Bible of Jehovah's people suffering when the nation's leaders fail to exercise due accountability and responsibility.
In time, it was decided that there is no scriptural excuse for the Watchtower in this matter, and anyone trying to prove otherwise is welcome to do so... just not here. As an online community of Jehovah's Witnesses, we openly declare that the Watchtower is not only accountable before Jehovah, but will be justifiably disciplined by Jehovah for its efforts to deny and or minimize the extent of this issue.
The involvement of the Watchtower as an NGO in active association with the United Nations, even going so far as to actively participate in UN-related functions is another area that, as an online community of Jehovah's Witnesses, we can no longer tolerate hearing excuses for. There is no scriptural excuse for such a serious betrayal of the exclusiveness of our ownership by Jehovah, and while anyone is welcome to try to prove otherwise, they will not be doing so here.
There are other areas where many of us disagree with the Watchtower, especially in matters of prophecy. So long as such discussions take place in an atmosphere of mutual respect and not condescension, we see no reason why such things shouldn't be discussed openly and freely. What we do not want to see are personal attacks and malignations of character during the course of these discussions.
Finally, we need to remember that this DB is not to be used as a poster board or picket sign to the Watchtower under the mistaken notion that we are going to cause the leaders of the Watchtower to correct their ways before they are willing to. Even those of us who have been wronged by the policies and teachings of the Watchtower need to check that anger and indignation at the door and remember that others in our online community have similarly gone through many ordeals. We should want to be encouraging one another in spite of the Watchtower's failings both in its leadership and in its teachings and policies. What we say should be upbuilding for others, tempered with a deep sense of faith that Jehovah will see to it that matters are corrected, and with fine expressions of how we ourselves are staying true to Jehovah in spite of these things. Our speech should never belittle others nor express a "complaining spirit," but rather an earnest yearning to endure what trials may come upon us so that when others see us and how we act, they will give praise to our God, Jehovah. We should be quick to bind up the wounds inflicted by disagreements, as well, to prevent Satan from having any more manipulative influence than he already can muster on his own.
Yes, may we remember why we are here.
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I'm sorry but this post almost made me puke, first of all the moderator does not even identify himself ....which basically tells me its either robert ....or timothy ....or robtim, as I'm starting to wonder if they are not the same person.
I quote....."our speach should never be-little others" ....please! calling the bethelites slimy liars, is not be-littling?
quote......"be quick to bind up the wounds" .....the wounds that you yourselves inflicted upon those who are already skinned!!! Shameless wolves delighting in the kill.
Amazing ....this post is nothing more than DAMAGE CONTROL, trying to stop the bleeding.the cafe has done nothing but tear down since its inception,it covertly endorses divisions amongst the christian congregation by slandering those who are sheperding God's people. Facts are the dwindling membership of the cafe shows that most can smell a rat , i ask one and all to seriously consider their position when it comes to being apart of a forum which is run by one possible two apostates.
Maybe the ideas stated are similar because both have discovered the same truths about the WTS. At least you can find a supposed "source", unlike the "quotes" of secular sources that the WTS uses....upon intensive research, I did locate the sources referenced in many publications and found them to be taken highly out of context and twisted to support the opposite of the original wording. I came to the conclusion that this is why the WTS does not give the exact source locations of their secular quotes, like most secular books or documents, because then they would be found to be lying. That's my "truth" about the supposed "Truth".
There seems to be yet another BLOG started about "The Book"
This time it is about the satire "2005 peace & luv convention"
Blog address is
http://inconvention.blogspot.com/
there are two versions, both are funny
This is simply EXCELLENT EXCELLENT EXCELLENT! You brothers should be proud that Jehovah has used you to so dilligently research, reason, and expose that wretched apostate and his poison lies that produce nothing beneficial but only disturb the brotherhood.
I will be coming here each week to see what more you have reaserched to benefit Jehovah's people to stick to the faith and ignore apostacy in its varied forms.
Agape,
Bruce
Thanks for your great information. We all appreciate your information. Keep posting these kind of nice blogs.
Conveyancing alambie
Whilst wagging a finger a the Watchtower, King also supports them. Neither are of YHUH and both support the apostate teaching Apollyon/Abaddon is Jesus.
what I've learned from e watchman has been enlightening and see no apostate agenda.
* wt thinks ww1 marked deathblow on 7th king wrong
*wt doesn't even know identity of king of the north
*(judge) rutherford was a power mad foul mouthed man who relished a luxurious lifestyle
*multiple returns of Jesus! really?
* overlapping last day generations
* child sex abuse payouts in the tens of millions and wt cover ups of predators
*continual revisions on blood
*many still languish in jails or were killed for not buying political party cards in malawi back in the 70's while wt is partnered with un as an ngo
on and on and on!!!
who's to say what e watchman publishes is apostate. he announces kingdom as only hope , and Jesus as the only means of salvation and exposes hypocricy and corruption in the wt org
In Jesus time his apostles asked him if they should silence a man preaching their message.Jesus response: Those not against us are for us.
I have only one comment to make and that I hope it might shed some light about who R. King (e-watchman) is. If he is the evil slave and an apostate, then how come when I was ready to completely stop believing in Jehovah's existence or his organization, then, because I found out about e-watchman's teachings then I started to believe again? E-watchman even encourages people to go back to the organization. Real apostates do exactly the opposite of that. If the organization leaders can do no wrong, then what about all the unreported child abuse cases, the NGO connection and the recent Australian commission committee? Jehovah’s witnesses often totally omit talking about these realities. Why is that? So, because R. King is exposing all these truths, then now he is evil and an apostate???
Y porque pensar que alguien que piensa diferente es un apóstata ? Yo llevo muchos Año leyendo las publicaciones de la organización y sencillamente mw parece razonable lo que robert dice.no sé si es de su autoría o no, pero qué testigo de jehová honesto puede decir que es muy razonable lo que el dice? El mismo dice que debemos investigar ppr nuestra cuenta si lo qye el dice es verdad.que hay de la organización? Acaso ella ha sido sincera con nosotros al informar sobre su alianza política con la onu? O de su absurda política sobre el abuso sexual de menores? Yo sé que somos imperfectos,jehova lo sabe.pero no es de hombres de verdad reconocerlos? Acaso no estamos en mejor posición que la Cristiandad?solo necesitamos pedirle perdon y sanado el problema con jehova, pero no.lo que he leído aquí y en tantas partes es somo disculpas estupidas cuando es tan sencillo como esto:la organización se extralimito. Robert nunca ha dicho que este no sea el pueblo de jehova.siempre recalca la importancia de ser ayudantes de nuestros hermanos ya que tanto engaño hemos tenido que creer. Soy testigo de jehová hace 30 años
Y es que me va a negar que los testigos de Jehová no somos seguidores de hombres? Vaya que uno simplemente diga que no cree en una sola enseñanza de la organización y verá que sucede. Acaso no es calificado como apóstata ?y porque tiene que ser así? No es eso prueba que se nos obliga a cree r en lo que dicen simples hombres? Aceptar sus interpretaciones estúpidas de las escrituras?
Es obvio que no sabe que los profetas Jeremías e isaias eran acallados por los sacerdotes y profetas(Mateo 23:31-36) no podríamos decir que los profetas eran apóstatas del "orden teocratico" ,ya que no estaban de acuerdo con lo que sucedía en medio del pueblo? (Habacuc 1:1-4 ; Eze 9:4) no me venga decir que los profetas eran libres de hablar...eran odiados y silenciados...hasta con la muerte.o no dice la biblia en isaias 30:9-11 que los profetas eras silenciados? Este tipo de páginas que defienden lo que no se puede defender es muestra de como la organización oculta tanta información a los testigos de a pie. Que hipocresía de organización!!!
No es de mi incumvencia? Perdón lo contradigo pero acaso los hombres y mujeres y niños de Israel no tuvieron que tomar decisiones importantes de JUICIO al separarse de Coré,Datán y Abiram? es muy sencillo, la organización nos dice que ella tiene la aprobación de jehova pero también nos dice que ser leales a jehova es igual a ser leales a la organización...le parece lógico? Porque igualar a jehova con su pueblo ,cuando en nuestra mente no cabe igualar a jehova ni con su hijo? Pilas!!! Jehová no comparte su gloria con nadie ni con nada y eso incluye a su pueblo
Te voy a decir mi propia experiencia: soy testigo de jehová desde hace 30 años.siempre defendí con celo al pueblo de Dios.discuti mucho en defensa de la pureza y limpieza espiritual de la organización.siempre,he sido un diligente estudiante de las escrituras y claro, las publicaciones de la organización.tres cosas siempre defendí del pueblo de Dios: que no se mezclaba en temas políticos, que rechazaba totalmente a los avisadores de niños y la firmeza de los hermanos en la Alemania nazi.mi amor por el pueblo de jehova era muy grande....cometí un pecado grave y fui expulsado y volví. Que sorpresa me lleve cuando empieza a salir a la luz que todo aquello que defendí era una puta vil mentira. Entre en depresión fuerte...no lo podía creer!!! Si no hubiera sido por robert no habría encausado mis pensamientos. He llegado a ver que este es el pueblo de jehova pero que necesitamos refinar nos pero este refinamiento no vendrá de betel.solo jehova puede arreglar a su pueblo terco y de dura cerviz
Y es que me va a negar que los testigos de Jehová no somos seguidores de hombres? Vaya que uno simplemente diga que no cree en una sola enseñanza de la organización y verá que sucede. Acaso no es calificado como apóstata ?y porque tiene que ser así? No es eso prueba que se nos obliga a cree r en lo que dicen simples hombres? Aceptar sus interpretaciones estúpidas de las escrituras?
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